Nuclear death traps.
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Kitbag, I don't know why you should "ignore list" Tourist for re-stating a basic principle. If your assertion is right, though, perhaps the reassurance should be asked by one of our elected representatives in the House. Maybe the lad's own MP could make the gesture. That is, I believe, how we do things. It certainly isn't by ad hoc statements on the strength of some Press tittle-tattle or social network induced hysteria.
Last edited by GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU; 20th May 2015 at 20:13. Reason: Crap Typing
His 'report' seems to consist of rambling hearsay, incidents reported third hand and accounts of him deliberately flouting security protocols. The so-called fire in the Missile area was, again, hearsay with embellishments.
He appears to be a deluded individual who has gone to great, perhaps obsessive, lengths to prove his hypothesis that Trident weapons system is 'bad' and his bizarre behaviour does question (if not demonstrate) his overall mental stability. That is of greater concern - how the hell did he manage to serve of a bomber, let alone be in the RN?
Perhaps he will use the 'Public Interest' defence; I just hope he has a good solicitor. Perhaps some of you will recall the Flt Lt medic who opposed the occupation of Iraq and conducted his own defence, based on Public Interest. Didn't go too well for him, either...
He appears to be a deluded individual who has gone to great, perhaps obsessive, lengths to prove his hypothesis that Trident weapons system is 'bad' and his bizarre behaviour does question (if not demonstrate) his overall mental stability. That is of greater concern - how the hell did he manage to serve of a bomber, let alone be in the RN?
Perhaps he will use the 'Public Interest' defence; I just hope he has a good solicitor. Perhaps some of you will recall the Flt Lt medic who opposed the occupation of Iraq and conducted his own defence, based on Public Interest. Didn't go too well for him, either...
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GBZ I agree totally.
I think Whenurhappy gets to the nub of the matter- how does this get to happen; that the security protocols are bypassed, cos if he can and most posters here think he is an idiot, who else is in the club and bypassing the layers of protection that should be in place, and are they idiots too?
PS Tourist just annoys me.
I think Whenurhappy gets to the nub of the matter- how does this get to happen; that the security protocols are bypassed, cos if he can and most posters here think he is an idiot, who else is in the club and bypassing the layers of protection that should be in place, and are they idiots too?
PS Tourist just annoys me.
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As someone who has seen poor conditions of equipment and been part of a make do culture, which ultimately ended in tragedy although only as a contributing factor, I applaud this whistleblowers courage.
Many of his points are very minor in nature, however some are truly concerning, I'd expect a complete investigation and assurance that such issues are either not true or have been addressed.
Many of his points are very minor in nature, however some are truly concerning, I'd expect a complete investigation and assurance that such issues are either not true or have been addressed.
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And this is what is wrong with this country.
A moron can spout cr@p and people want to spend a fortune conducting an enquiry.
If he had said "the submarine is powered by chained unicorns" would you want an enquiry by the RSPCA, or would you just ignore him?
A moron can spout cr@p and people want to spend a fortune conducting an enquiry.
If he had said "the submarine is powered by chained unicorns" would you want an enquiry by the RSPCA, or would you just ignore him?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Kitbag, it is human nature to seek the easy way, to bypass the system. People forget passes, I used to. Passes may not be checked [as the individual may be known to the guard]. I realise there is a risk when a pass has been withdrawn.
IIRC, when I was on Resolution, there was an exercise bike in the forest.
IIRC, when I was on Resolution, there was an exercise bike in the forest.
If he had said "the submarine is powered by chained unicorns" would you want an enquiry by the RSPCA, or would you just ignore him?
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Tourist - how do YOU know what he is saying is rubbish ? Most of what he has said seems eminently plausible. I spent 16 years working on various aging Airframes and some of the turns of phrase in his narritive ring very true to my experience.
I now work in an industry where safety is given the highest priority over anything else - any member of the team is empowered to stop the job if nessesary, it works. The problem in any industry is the dinosaurs and the its always been like that culture - this guy appears to have identified hazards, raised his concerns to supervisors and been shut down by the "its always been like that" attitude.
I would be suprised that the RN does not have a safety system in place similar to the DASOR (apologies if i have got that wrong) whereby concerns of anyone regardless of rank can raise flight safety concerns and have them properly looked into, I believe only a couple of years ago a junior rank raised his concerns which swiftly resulted in the temporary grounding of a FJ Sqn and the reshuffle of Sqn engineering management.
I now work in an industry where safety is given the highest priority over anything else - any member of the team is empowered to stop the job if nessesary, it works. The problem in any industry is the dinosaurs and the its always been like that culture - this guy appears to have identified hazards, raised his concerns to supervisors and been shut down by the "its always been like that" attitude.
I would be suprised that the RN does not have a safety system in place similar to the DASOR (apologies if i have got that wrong) whereby concerns of anyone regardless of rank can raise flight safety concerns and have them properly looked into, I believe only a couple of years ago a junior rank raised his concerns which swiftly resulted in the temporary grounding of a FJ Sqn and the reshuffle of Sqn engineering management.
Kitbag, it is human nature to seek the easy way, to bypass the system. People forget passes, I used to. Passes may not be checked [as the individual may be known to the guard]. I realise there is a risk when a pass has been withdrawn.
Oh, and whilst we are on the discussion of passes, what is the point of vehicle passes? Very recently I spent 15 minutes at a well-known West London airfield getting a vehicle pass for a rental, simply to drop it off!
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enginessuck
I'm an ex pinger Naval officer. I've been on boats on many occasions and hunted them on far too many more. I personally know many submariners.
They are easily the most professional branch of any military service I have worked with including my own. (Filthy soap dodgers obviously!)
Of course they will carry snags. That's life. Anybody who thinks that any military machine is ever showroom fresh is frankly a moron and not worthy of consideration.
Some chippy AB with mental issues and an inflated sense of his own importance, intelligence and literary ability does not in any way persuade me that they don't take safety seriously.
I'm an ex pinger Naval officer. I've been on boats on many occasions and hunted them on far too many more. I personally know many submariners.
They are easily the most professional branch of any military service I have worked with including my own. (Filthy soap dodgers obviously!)
Of course they will carry snags. That's life. Anybody who thinks that any military machine is ever showroom fresh is frankly a moron and not worthy of consideration.
Some chippy AB with mental issues and an inflated sense of his own importance, intelligence and literary ability does not in any way persuade me that they don't take safety seriously.
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Some chippy AB with mental issues and an inflated sense of his own importance, intelligence and literary ability does not in any way persuade me that they don't take safety seriously.
Totally agree, Tourist. Snags are carried on all sorts of equipment, civilian and military. And not just aircraft, ships or boats. A brand new AB would have little or no idea what snags were known, how they were managed or what the limitations or operational effect of them were.
Still, at least he finishes up with something important. The heads overflowed.
Still, at least he finishes up with something important. The heads overflowed.
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So, they really were in the Sh
t 
t
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I can't believe how many people want to shoot the messanger on this - sure he's not officer material but I'd thought we'd all learnt that you ignore any evidence of problems at your peril
just go back and reread all the posts about the Nimrod and the way the MoD ignored people
enginesuck is correct - this should be investigated properly
just go back and reread all the posts about the Nimrod and the way the MoD ignored people
enginesuck is correct - this should be investigated properly
The thing is, HH, which bits do you choose to investigate? There are so many disjointed and jumbled claims in there, some of them not even first hand accounts, it's very hard to know.
The guy's choice not to mention names or dates or, well, pretty much anything, doesn't make a great starting point for any investigation. Whom do you question? Which security guards do you check? Which faults exactly do you look into?
Or should they just investigate everything in the SSBN fleet? On the basis of something that looks like it was written by a twelve year old. Maybe with help.
Sure there may be things there that warrant a careful look. But which bits would you look into?
The guy's choice not to mention names or dates or, well, pretty much anything, doesn't make a great starting point for any investigation. Whom do you question? Which security guards do you check? Which faults exactly do you look into?
Or should they just investigate everything in the SSBN fleet? On the basis of something that looks like it was written by a twelve year old. Maybe with help.
Sure there may be things there that warrant a careful look. But which bits would you look into?
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enginessuck
I'm an ex pinger Naval officer. I've been on boats on many occasions and hunted them on far too many more. I personally know many submariners.
They are easily the most professional branch of any military service I have worked with including my own. (Filthy soap dodgers obviously!)
Of course they will carry snags. That's life. Anybody who thinks that any military machine is ever showroom fresh is frankly a moron and not worthy of consideration.
Some chippy AB with mental issues and an inflated sense of his own importance, intelligence and literary ability does not in any way persuade me that they don't take safety seriously.
I'm an ex pinger Naval officer. I've been on boats on many occasions and hunted them on far too many more. I personally know many submariners.
They are easily the most professional branch of any military service I have worked with including my own. (Filthy soap dodgers obviously!)
Of course they will carry snags. That's life. Anybody who thinks that any military machine is ever showroom fresh is frankly a moron and not worthy of consideration.
Some chippy AB with mental issues and an inflated sense of his own importance, intelligence and literary ability does not in any way persuade me that they don't take safety seriously.
Tom
Tom Joad,
Again I ask, "what, exactly, should be investigated?" As I'm sure you know, investigations are costly and intrusive (in many ways). So which bits would you want to examine? Which people? Which supposed issues?
Again I ask, "what, exactly, should be investigated?" As I'm sure you know, investigations are costly and intrusive (in many ways). So which bits would you want to examine? Which people? Which supposed issues?