RAF Sidearms
Nice to see MJ's comments on brownings and BROWNINGS. During Corporate, on the range at ASI, I happened to see some members of the Hereford gun club firing their Brownings and the results they were achieving were incredible, as where some of their firing positions. Layed down, feet towards the target with head, shoulders and knees raised, pistol held in both hands, arms outstretched with pistol resting on raised knees. Not a good idea to be in front of that.
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From my limited experience giving the target a scare at 10m and not drop the weapon was considered an improvement on previous efforts for some
And others it was about a 10cm group at 30m.
To be honest on the normal range day with us normal folk it was never very impressive. And getting them all into the target at 20m was considered a major success.
The best guy I saw was a civi weapons instructor from that lot that deal with strange weapons.
And others it was about a 10cm group at 30m.
To be honest on the normal range day with us normal folk it was never very impressive. And getting them all into the target at 20m was considered a major success.
The best guy I saw was a civi weapons instructor from that lot that deal with strange weapons.
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Oh, dear ... how good/accuarate is the Browning?
Depends on whose hands it is in.
At the risk of receiving a lot of flak, I appear to have held the European Long Range records for several years (I later discovered) around 1980. We used to shoot at 100 (on a Fig 11) and 200 (on the 4ft frame) ... prone, of course. With any competence, 10 hits every time.
At 10m, a 2" group is easy - on 2 targets in 6 seconds. At 25m, slightly harder due to the short sight-base, so lets say 4" in 30 secs at one target.
Match conditions evolved in the 90s as it was getting too easy, with scores over 110/120 being quite common. Then it was made a lot more difficult, more operational and less like target shooting
/anorak
Depends on whose hands it is in.
At the risk of receiving a lot of flak, I appear to have held the European Long Range records for several years (I later discovered) around 1980. We used to shoot at 100 (on a Fig 11) and 200 (on the 4ft frame) ... prone, of course. With any competence, 10 hits every time.
At 10m, a 2" group is easy - on 2 targets in 6 seconds. At 25m, slightly harder due to the short sight-base, so lets say 4" in 30 secs at one target.
Match conditions evolved in the 90s as it was getting too easy, with scores over 110/120 being quite common. Then it was made a lot more difficult, more operational and less like target shooting
/anorak
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Given that the 'bull' was worth 5 points, the HPS (Highest Possible Score) for this mach was 200 pts.
My average was 186.
Admittedly I used my own Browning MkIII which I had from new but, IAW the match rules, it was an 'as issued Service Pistol'.
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With a properly put together MkI or MkII I would imagine my score average would be the same.
Sadly it was always an effort to get the Armourers to look after 'Team Weapons' properly.
Not for nothig does the song go:
A, I'm an Armourer.
B, I'm an Armourer.
C, I'm an Armourer...
Sadly it was always an effort to get the Armourers to look after 'Team Weapons' properly.
Not for nothig does the song go:
A, I'm an Armourer.
B, I'm an Armourer.
C, I'm an Armourer...
On exchange with the FAF in the 80s, we used to have a weekly 'sports morning'. Once every couple of months we would go to the local army range and do pistol 'training', with the French service issue 9mm, which came out of a crate of loose sidearms. With such knocked-about pistols, accuracy was certainly in doubt!
However, part of our annual 'fitness test' was, believe it or not, pistol shooting! For this our Boss would produce the unit's prized rosewood box, containing a pair of beautiful long-barrelled Colt .45 revolvers. Needless to say our scores were generally satisfactory!
And annuver fing.....in NI in the late 70s, mags for the Browning 9mms we carried could have only 10 rounds in them, rather than their 13-round capacity. (Supposedly as decreed by SRAFONI.) Apparently compressing the spring with the extra 3 rounds made it more likely we would lose a few....
General opinion was that, having used the 10 shots, throwing the empty pistol at one's PIRA opponent was the best chance of a result!
However, part of our annual 'fitness test' was, believe it or not, pistol shooting! For this our Boss would produce the unit's prized rosewood box, containing a pair of beautiful long-barrelled Colt .45 revolvers. Needless to say our scores were generally satisfactory!
And annuver fing.....in NI in the late 70s, mags for the Browning 9mms we carried could have only 10 rounds in them, rather than their 13-round capacity. (Supposedly as decreed by SRAFONI.) Apparently compressing the spring with the extra 3 rounds made it more likely we would lose a few....
General opinion was that, having used the 10 shots, throwing the empty pistol at one's PIRA opponent was the best chance of a result!
Last edited by idle stop; 5th Nov 2014 at 20:24. Reason: Pedantry!
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So as it appears my experience with a cardboard box of we would be better with a flintlock handguns isn't uncommon.
If the services aren't looking after them and are only using them as uniform additions to look the part.
Why on earth are they not buying dummy's for ****s and giggles to fill a holster use. And save the cash but look after the proper ones.
How much is 300 brownings worth?
How many pool ones do you reckon there are? must be 2000 plus across the three services.
About 500 quid each aren't they?
So that's a million sitting there in poorly maintained, inaccurate, abused weapons.
Which seems a bit strange to me because if someone's rifle appeared in the armoury in such poor order they would be on a charge.
If the services aren't looking after them and are only using them as uniform additions to look the part.
Why on earth are they not buying dummy's for ****s and giggles to fill a holster use. And save the cash but look after the proper ones.
How much is 300 brownings worth?
How many pool ones do you reckon there are? must be 2000 plus across the three services.
About 500 quid each aren't they?
So that's a million sitting there in poorly maintained, inaccurate, abused weapons.
Which seems a bit strange to me because if someone's rifle appeared in the armoury in such poor order they would be on a charge.
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Re accuracy at the range ....
Younger and slimmer LTDT a member of the University Regiment, avid watcher of Bodie & Doyle, first trip down the Sneaker Range. (In case it's called something else in other jurisdictions, a Sneaker Range is a track through a lightly-wooded range with 'DART' targets that pop up, kind of a pop-up Fig.11, chest-mounted control device carried by the range operator).
Instructed to double tap each engagement. Blood pumping, excitement level up, "can't believe I'm getting paid [not much] to do this!!!!"
"Load, Action, Instant, targets to your front, watch and shoot"
pop up BANG BANG missed
pop up BANG BANG missed
pop up BANG BANG missed
[started to get embarrassed]
pop up BANG BANG HIT!
[oooo - choice!]
pop up .... target not seen
pop up BANG BANG missed
pop up BANG BANG missed
pop up BANG .... slide to the rear, awkward silence [carry out the IA, get the weapon system working again "Oh fcuk where'd the target go?"
It was at this stage that I realised that the strange chortling sound I had heard wasn't anything ominous, it was the safety supervisor laughing out loud at my ineptitude.
Oh well. Rifle instead. Or better still, All Arms Call For Fire, or a CAS request. Bugger this pistol stuff!
Younger and slimmer LTDT a member of the University Regiment, avid watcher of Bodie & Doyle, first trip down the Sneaker Range. (In case it's called something else in other jurisdictions, a Sneaker Range is a track through a lightly-wooded range with 'DART' targets that pop up, kind of a pop-up Fig.11, chest-mounted control device carried by the range operator).
Instructed to double tap each engagement. Blood pumping, excitement level up, "can't believe I'm getting paid [not much] to do this!!!!"
"Load, Action, Instant, targets to your front, watch and shoot"
pop up BANG BANG missed
pop up BANG BANG missed
pop up BANG BANG missed
[started to get embarrassed]
pop up BANG BANG HIT!
[oooo - choice!]
pop up .... target not seen
pop up BANG BANG missed
pop up BANG BANG missed
pop up BANG .... slide to the rear, awkward silence [carry out the IA, get the weapon system working again "Oh fcuk where'd the target go?"
It was at this stage that I realised that the strange chortling sound I had heard wasn't anything ominous, it was the safety supervisor laughing out loud at my ineptitude.
Oh well. Rifle instead. Or better still, All Arms Call For Fire, or a CAS request. Bugger this pistol stuff!
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the point of issuing guns isn't to carry out target shooting - it's to scare the bad guys - who are probably even worse shots that our guys 'n gals
IIRC the HK Police in the 60's reckoned that you had to be within 5m of the bad guys (as opposed to a target) to have a 50% chance of hitting them first shot
On average people who were hit were shot at a range of less than 3m.........
In the Wild West there was a Sheriff who never fired his revolver - he used to walk up and club people with his .45 as they tried to lug it their gun out of the holster, remember how to fire it and then lift it up..................
IIRC the HK Police in the 60's reckoned that you had to be within 5m of the bad guys (as opposed to a target) to have a 50% chance of hitting them first shot
On average people who were hit were shot at a range of less than 3m.........
In the Wild West there was a Sheriff who never fired his revolver - he used to walk up and club people with his .45 as they tried to lug it their gun out of the holster, remember how to fire it and then lift it up..................
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For those that are still serving.
If you have a chance and find out that the slop jockeys are going to a range day go to it.
Combine 7 weigie "chefs" with a welsh WO2 infantry type range officer a load of brownings and smg's. With 9mm ammunition produced by some ex colony on some fair trade crap deal and a slight cockup with the amount of ammo issued. (how was I to know that they didn't need 500 rounds each? Anyway shouting at me and calling me a lady garden doesn't solve the problem, drive your own 4 tonner next time and get it yourself)
You have the makings of a top days entertainment and more than likely learn some new swear words or at very least some new combinations.
I have never seen so many stoppages, runways on auto when it was meant to be single shot. Of course there was never a stoppage on a full mag when it went auto mode.
As for the chefs I have never seen such a bunch of happy chaps in the face of possible death by a WO2. Best lunch on the range to boot.
3500 rounds and we didn't need to change the targets once.
If you have a chance and find out that the slop jockeys are going to a range day go to it.
Combine 7 weigie "chefs" with a welsh WO2 infantry type range officer a load of brownings and smg's. With 9mm ammunition produced by some ex colony on some fair trade crap deal and a slight cockup with the amount of ammo issued. (how was I to know that they didn't need 500 rounds each? Anyway shouting at me and calling me a lady garden doesn't solve the problem, drive your own 4 tonner next time and get it yourself)
You have the makings of a top days entertainment and more than likely learn some new swear words or at very least some new combinations.
I have never seen so many stoppages, runways on auto when it was meant to be single shot. Of course there was never a stoppage on a full mag when it went auto mode.
As for the chefs I have never seen such a bunch of happy chaps in the face of possible death by a WO2. Best lunch on the range to boot.
3500 rounds and we didn't need to change the targets once.
