RAF Sidearms
The Canadian Armed Forces went to the C7 (Canadian variant of the Shyte M 16) after deciding that the lovely FAL FN wasn't good enough. 
I was on a small ship at the time and we were told to turn in our 4 FN's and 1000 rounds OPSTOCK in order to be issued the new weapons and ammo. We got 4 rifles but only 982 rounds of C 7 ammo. Turned out a 5.56 round cost 1.6 cents more than a 7.72 round, so the bin rats would only give us the dollar equivalent in ammo.
As for pistols, the Glock has pretty much taken over from the Browning Hi Power. The Glock is not very pretty but it works well although I personally liked the Browning I can see why the change was made.
I was on a small ship at the time and we were told to turn in our 4 FN's and 1000 rounds OPSTOCK in order to be issued the new weapons and ammo. We got 4 rifles but only 982 rounds of C 7 ammo. Turned out a 5.56 round cost 1.6 cents more than a 7.72 round, so the bin rats would only give us the dollar equivalent in ammo.
As for pistols, the Glock has pretty much taken over from the Browning Hi Power. The Glock is not very pretty but it works well although I personally liked the Browning I can see why the change was made.
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Slightly off point; 1966/67 RAF Khormaksar, Aden. The personal weapon for airmen was the Lee Enfield .303 plus 5 rounds. Every now and then the rounds that had been used for issue to the station guards were taken to the range at RAF Steamer Point and fired off. On one occasion when I was there only 1 in 5 rounds went bang. So then they issued us with 10 rounds!
Aaron.
Aaron.
You signed for 200 rounds and when they became life ex they were used on the ranges, that is where i found the actual contents of the mags varied by up to 4 or so rounds dependant on the armourer who loaded them being interested. After having tried cutting into the bags, we would have been dead in an attack before we even opened one.
As for the SMG, I thought that stood for Shoot More Gulls
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Aye, in Cyprus we had sellotape over the bullets.
Let me see, high temperatures, sticky residues, made in Pakistan, what chance a misfire and a blockage?
Let me see, high temperatures, sticky residues, made in Pakistan, what chance a misfire and a blockage?
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At one point in the late '80s I managed to be qualified to shoot the SLR, LMG, SMG &SLP.
The pistol shoot was a bit of a joke though. I think my first couple of rounds posed more of a threat to people in St Andrews than the target!
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The pistol shoot was a bit of a joke though. I think my first couple of rounds posed more of a threat to people in St Andrews than the target!
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I fired more rounds in the Rifle Club at Marham, than I ever did under Rock supervision on various ranges.
In the 'Rifle' club, we always finished the evening by blasting off the last of whatever ammunition we had bought for the evening, in pistols.
It was of course all .22 rounds.
In the 'Rifle' club, we always finished the evening by blasting off the last of whatever ammunition we had bought for the evening, in pistols.
It was of course all .22 rounds.
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The S&W 38/200 was famously underpowered ... these barrels in my possession came from an old friend (sadly departed) who was Arm Eng (and whose career went from WOp/AG on Wapitis with his trust Lewis Gun on the NW Frontier to MoD as the Wpn Eng desk for all RAF rifled weapons up to and including the 23mm Mauser cannon and the 76mm gun on the RAF Regt's Toy Tanks 
The S&W 38/200 was famously underpowered ... these barrels in my possession came from an old friend (sadly departed) who was Arm Eng (and whose career went from WOp/AG on Wapitis with his trust Lewis Gun on the NW Frontier to MoD as the Wpn Eng desk for all RAF rifled weapons up to and including the 23mm Mauser cannon and the 76mm gun on the RAF Regt's Toy Tanks
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As you can see, he fired the first 6 rounds to no effect. This is not unusual, as most RAF personnel can't hit the target anyway!
He then reloaded a further 6 rounds. Round #7 joined the others in the barrel, and #8 then went 'bang' ... but could not go far enough to allow the cylinder to continue to rotate, so the pistol was completely jammed up. At this point proceedings were halted
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I recall standing on the wall of Spandau Prison, armed with a S&W .38 and 5 rounds of ammunition, watching Hess, Speer and von Schirach pottering in their garden. Never sure if we were there to stop them getting out or others getting in.
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PN,
I remember a cavalry unit once bulling up its brass with Duraglit. I remember too, the effect of water, residue, oil, solvents and water on the round as the primer ignited. It was generally believed that some oils and lubricants could seep into the primer if the round was stored for too long and then affect or even prevent ignition, hence the doctrine of not (normally) allowing oil to come into contact with ammunition. Same with the chamber and barrel, both always wiped nearly dry before introducing the round into the chamber as oil/water etc could create overpressure when fired as the spec always included a certain friction between the case and chamber anyway (causing the trajectory to be high and creating a visual signature). I imagine Herrick etc has provided a wealth of practical experience which knocks any time expired Warminster Warrior insight into a top hat, and I stand by to be updated or corrected.
I remember a cavalry unit once bulling up its brass with Duraglit. I remember too, the effect of water, residue, oil, solvents and water on the round as the primer ignited. It was generally believed that some oils and lubricants could seep into the primer if the round was stored for too long and then affect or even prevent ignition, hence the doctrine of not (normally) allowing oil to come into contact with ammunition. Same with the chamber and barrel, both always wiped nearly dry before introducing the round into the chamber as oil/water etc could create overpressure when fired as the spec always included a certain friction between the case and chamber anyway (causing the trajectory to be high and creating a visual signature). I imagine Herrick etc has provided a wealth of practical experience which knocks any time expired Warminster Warrior insight into a top hat, and I stand by to be updated or corrected.
Like many, I used the 9mm Browning for most of my Service career but did supplement it on a number of occasions. I added a Colt 38 Auto (9mm short) in t'early 70s (same overall size as the PPK but slimmer - and yes, it did fit under a dinner jacket!). Drawbacks: small round and only 7 in the mag. Advantages: could be easily concealed, had a great butt safety and was better than a knife in a dark alley.
In latter days I packed a 357 Magnum with 4-inch barrel. Advantages: fitted in the standard issue aircrew holster and would take out a small tank. Disadvantages: had to buy your own ammo!
Ah, happy days!
In latter days I packed a 357 Magnum with 4-inch barrel. Advantages: fitted in the standard issue aircrew holster and would take out a small tank. Disadvantages: had to buy your own ammo!
Ah, happy days!
Back in the late 1970s when such things were still legal for properly licensed UK citizens (yes, really....), a mate with whom 3 of us shared a house was licensed to import a single handgun at a time from the USA.
His toy of choice was a Colt Python .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. He also made his own ammunition, using a bespoke Black & Decker Workmate. It took a bit of getting used to, seeing our chum with his big black cannon! He kept it at the armoury of the station where we were based and invited us to have a 'plink' on the outdoor range. Excellent fun - and less of a recoil kick than I'd expected.
The lad who worked at the range asked me why my chum owned such a piece of hardware - I told him that we needed it for 'pest control'!
His toy of choice was a Colt Python .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. He also made his own ammunition, using a bespoke Black & Decker Workmate. It took a bit of getting used to, seeing our chum with his big black cannon! He kept it at the armoury of the station where we were based and invited us to have a 'plink' on the outdoor range. Excellent fun - and less of a recoil kick than I'd expected.
The lad who worked at the range asked me why my chum owned such a piece of hardware - I told him that we needed it for 'pest control'!
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There was a guy at Odiham had a panzershreck in the armoury on a shotgun licence, he was an ex civilian armourer turned RAF Techy. Apparently when applying for a licence they asked details such as barrel length and was it smoothbore, then issued a shotgun licence, though he had no ammo for it lol
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So which Glock does the RAF use now? This one? 
Saw a sectioned barrel similar to MPN11's in the late 70's, but it was a Browning, and the culprit was Pakistani ammo.
I ran the station shooting team (St.Mawgan) at the time, as a secondary duty. The Sterling SMG could produce surprises with poor ammunition. Usually with single shot selected, which was normal in shooting competitions, the gun would fire a single round and the breech block would blow back, re-engage on the sear, and be ready for the next single shot. If the ammo was under strength, the block could blow back to a point just forward of the sear, so that it did not engage. The spring would then send it forward, re-chambering and firing the next round in the magazine. It was not uncommon for the whole magazine (usually 10 rounds) to fire, and there was no way of stopping it except removing the mag, and by the time you did that it would be empty anyway. People who were not used to firing auto would put 1 in the target, the next near the top of the butt,and the rest would disappear in the direction of Newquay.
As regards hearing, all off us on Shacks were aware that the noise levels were not good for the ears, the pilots and F/Es in particular, sitting closest to the engines. When I had my leaving medical, having then spent the last 10 years on Nimrods, I was surprised to be told that my hearing was fine. The Doc said that exposure to high frequency noise did permanent damage, but that low frequency noise (i.e. Shack) did damage that rectified itself over time once you were no longer exposed to it.
I ran the station shooting team (St.Mawgan) at the time, as a secondary duty. The Sterling SMG could produce surprises with poor ammunition. Usually with single shot selected, which was normal in shooting competitions, the gun would fire a single round and the breech block would blow back, re-engage on the sear, and be ready for the next single shot. If the ammo was under strength, the block could blow back to a point just forward of the sear, so that it did not engage. The spring would then send it forward, re-chambering and firing the next round in the magazine. It was not uncommon for the whole magazine (usually 10 rounds) to fire, and there was no way of stopping it except removing the mag, and by the time you did that it would be empty anyway. People who were not used to firing auto would put 1 in the target, the next near the top of the butt,and the rest would disappear in the direction of Newquay.
As regards hearing, all off us on Shacks were aware that the noise levels were not good for the ears, the pilots and F/Es in particular, sitting closest to the engines. When I had my leaving medical, having then spent the last 10 years on Nimrods, I was surprised to be told that my hearing was fine. The Doc said that exposure to high frequency noise did permanent damage, but that low frequency noise (i.e. Shack) did damage that rectified itself over time once you were no longer exposed to it.
So which Glock does the RAF use now? This one?
You Tube
You Tube
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OMG, I do dislike those "spraying rounds down range' people. I'm sure it gives them a moist patch, but it really does nothing for me!
Oxenos ... I suspect we may know each other from Bisley. Were you in the RAF SP Squad, perchance?
Oxenos ... I suspect we may know each other from Bisley. Were you in the RAF SP Squad, perchance?
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MPN11, The illustration you gave appears to have the mortal remains of a Webley or an Enfield .38 and not a Smith & Wesson at the top which has a rigid frame and a cylinder that swings out.