More Medals/Bar!
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@ Nugget90 ... a senior RAF Regt officer of my acquaintance did his full career to 55 without a single medal. He was either 'wrong place wrong time', or 'not long enough' ... missed the Silver Jubbly, gone before the Golden one, etc etc. But then there Air Officers back then with nothing, so I didn't feel left out 
@ Old-Duffer ... indeed, an officer's Good Conduct is implicit, as I noted earlier.
Being involved with the RAF post-retirement in 94, I was staggered to see the collection of medal/ribbons people has earned. There was a 'sea change' in Military involvement that many of us avoided, or were too old to participate in. The guys earned theirs the hard way - I did nothing special for 30 years, but I got my Vet Badge.
@ Old-Duffer ... indeed, an officer's Good Conduct is implicit, as I noted earlier.
Being involved with the RAF post-retirement in 94, I was staggered to see the collection of medal/ribbons people has earned. There was a 'sea change' in Military involvement that many of us avoided, or were too old to participate in. The guys earned theirs the hard way - I did nothing special for 30 years, but I got my Vet Badge.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
SL, of course, brain fade, Kuwait was '61, likewise Greece and Palestine were also pre- '62.
I mentioned Belize from a briefing by the guy on Ascot Ops that night when it blew up. The initial reaction was Where? Same with South Georgia I guess.
I mentioned Belize from a briefing by the guy on Ascot Ops that night when it blew up. The initial reaction was Where? Same with South Georgia I guess.
Gentleman Aviator
Further to the occasional posts on the 'South Vietnam' clasp to the 1962 GSM awarded only to members of the Australian Army Training Team, I have a suspicion that the recipients were later offered the opportunity to 'convert' this to the Vietnam Medal (VM - awarded for operational service in South Vietnam between 1964 and 1973).
and replaced with the Vietnam Medal, leaving only AATTV as recipients.Wiki (usual caveats!) has it thus:
South Vietnam
This clasp was instituted by Royal approval on the 16 December 1965 for "members of our Australian Armed Forces who qualify by participation in operations in defence of the Republic of Vietnam as from 24 December 1962, and to a date to be determined,..." Between 1963 and 1965, at least 68 members of the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam (AATTV) and 232 members of the RAAF Transport Flight Vietnam qualified for the clasp. However, a decision of 1966 relating to the institution and award of the Vietnam Medal led to the stripping of the award from the RAAF personnel. A Royal Warrant dated 8 June 1968 retrospectively changed the qualifying periods to:
Between 24 December 1962 and 29 May 1964,
30 days' service in ships operating in inland waters or off the Vietnamese coast.
1 day in the service of a land unit.
1 operational sortie.
30 days' service on an official visit.
For service after 29 May 1964, personnel were awarded the Vietnam Medal. Thus, only 68 clasps were issued, and all 68 went to AATTV members.
This clasp was instituted by Royal approval on the 16 December 1965 for "members of our Australian Armed Forces who qualify by participation in operations in defence of the Republic of Vietnam as from 24 December 1962, and to a date to be determined,..." Between 1963 and 1965, at least 68 members of the Australian Army Training Team Vietnam (AATTV) and 232 members of the RAAF Transport Flight Vietnam qualified for the clasp. However, a decision of 1966 relating to the institution and award of the Vietnam Medal led to the stripping of the award from the RAAF personnel. A Royal Warrant dated 8 June 1968 retrospectively changed the qualifying periods to:
Between 24 December 1962 and 29 May 1964,
30 days' service in ships operating in inland waters or off the Vietnamese coast.
1 day in the service of a land unit.
1 operational sortie.
30 days' service on an official visit.
For service after 29 May 1964, personnel were awarded the Vietnam Medal. Thus, only 68 clasps were issued, and all 68 went to AATTV members.
Gentleman Aviator
MPN
One hates to disagree with Old-Duffer, but one knows of a number of officers who have been Court Martialled and yet not dismissed the Service. Surely they would not qualify for a LS&GCM??
@ Old-Duffer ... indeed, an officer's Good Conduct is implicit, as I noted earlier.
Last edited by teeteringhead; 5th Aug 2014 at 12:45.
The ‘medal famine’ referred to in this Thread, did not begin to be reversed until GW1 in 1990/1.The very significant deployments of all services meant a plethora of Gulf medals. The arrival of a Labour Government coincided (approximately) with a more interventionist policy on the world stage and generated not just British campaign medals but significant numbers from other agencies.
Oh Goody! Another round medal (LS& GCM) to add to the constellation that I have. Bloody expensive to get both sets mounted and 5 - yes 5 - sets of ribbons to be updated on uniforms various. And in my last tour, too.
Actually, irrespective of the large number of medals SP have these days (and the churn of SP is such that the numbers of those with medals form the Balkans, for example, is rapidly diminishing), I think a Long Service medal for Officers is, err, long overdue
Actually, irrespective of the large number of medals SP have these days (and the churn of SP is such that the numbers of those with medals form the Balkans, for example, is rapidly diminishing), I think a Long Service medal for Officers is, err, long overdue
Ah yes Rarely,
I recall a line in the book '101 Nights' by Ray Ollis. A pompous career sqn ldr says to F/S navigator, something about the amount of flying. The nav, who has a BEM for gallantry, replies: 'Sir, it's not how many hours you've got but what you've got in to the hours'.
Returning to the post above and TTH's comments about officers who have been court martialled but not discharged, perhaps a medal based on 'good conduct', rather than exclusively service, needs to differentiate between disciplinary action for a 'technical offence' and something which calls the officer's honesty/integrity to be questioned. Thus Flt Lt Buggins is guilty of - say - a low flying offence. However, Flt Lt Snooks makes inaccurate claims for boarding school allowance. The former says a lot about Buggins maturity but Snooks honour is shot to ribbons. Snooks would not get the medal but Buggins probably would. Someone will mention 'rehabilitation of offenders' but part of t he punishment with which Snooks must live in the service is not getting the gong. Hence, my personal preference is for a service medal and not a good conduct medal. This avoids the argument about arbitrating in individual cases.
Old Duffer
I recall a line in the book '101 Nights' by Ray Ollis. A pompous career sqn ldr says to F/S navigator, something about the amount of flying. The nav, who has a BEM for gallantry, replies: 'Sir, it's not how many hours you've got but what you've got in to the hours'.
Returning to the post above and TTH's comments about officers who have been court martialled but not discharged, perhaps a medal based on 'good conduct', rather than exclusively service, needs to differentiate between disciplinary action for a 'technical offence' and something which calls the officer's honesty/integrity to be questioned. Thus Flt Lt Buggins is guilty of - say - a low flying offence. However, Flt Lt Snooks makes inaccurate claims for boarding school allowance. The former says a lot about Buggins maturity but Snooks honour is shot to ribbons. Snooks would not get the medal but Buggins probably would. Someone will mention 'rehabilitation of offenders' but part of t he punishment with which Snooks must live in the service is not getting the gong. Hence, my personal preference is for a service medal and not a good conduct medal. This avoids the argument about arbitrating in individual cases.
Old Duffer
Gentleman Aviator
Whenurhappy
... damn' cost of miniatures too...
But, as I have heard said (tongue in cheek) at the Secret Hampshire Helicopter Base (where there are many of another shape)....
Oh Goody! Another round medal
But, as I have heard said (tongue in cheek) at the Secret Hampshire Helicopter Base (where there are many of another shape)....
Round ones don't count!!
TTH,
My thoughts exactly. If a casual observer couldn't determine from my rank, thinning and greying hair - as well as a collection of campaign medals going back 20 years, and another awarded in 1987 - that I'd served for quite a long time, well, what's the point? At least it will be a proper medal - silver, the Queen on it, etc. Not like the NATO medals...
My thoughts exactly. If a casual observer couldn't determine from my rank, thinning and greying hair - as well as a collection of campaign medals going back 20 years, and another awarded in 1987 - that I'd served for quite a long time, well, what's the point? At least it will be a proper medal - silver, the Queen on it, etc. Not like the NATO medals...
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But, as I have heard said (tongue in cheek) at the Secret Hampshire Helicopter Base (where there are many of another shape)....
Quote:
Round ones don't count!!
Quote:
Round ones don't count!!
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One hates to disagree with Old-Duffer, but one knows of a number of officers who have been Court Martialled and yet not dismissed the Service. Surely they would not qualify for a LS&GCM??
Survived and made sqn ldr, to my amazement, given the offence (which I shall not reveal, but which was most inappropriate behaviour).
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
After an email from the Worcester Medals Service I looked up the Government website to find the criteria for the extension period for the South Atlantic medal.
Surprisingly they have cocked it up. The extension is to 21 Oct 1982 when Mount Pleasant airfield opened.
As the nav on the first aircraft to land at MPA on 1 May 1985 I know they are wrong.
They probably mean Stanley airfield.
Surprisingly they have cocked it up. The extension is to 21 Oct 1982 when Mount Pleasant airfield opened.
As the nav on the first aircraft to land at MPA on 1 May 1985 I know they are wrong.
They probably mean Stanley airfield.
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Went in with nothing - came out with nothing.
Over a period of several months, being almost crisped up by some decidedly unfriendly nocturnal visitors. Filling and stacking mags so fast my fingers were raw just before being told by a (smart) Wupert, "your position is untenable and we won't be coming back for what's left - I suggest you leg it back to camp chop-chop and answer the challenges carefully".
Made me think that a few months in central stores for a gong would have been far more relaxing.
Imagegear
Over a period of several months, being almost crisped up by some decidedly unfriendly nocturnal visitors. Filling and stacking mags so fast my fingers were raw just before being told by a (smart) Wupert, "your position is untenable and we won't be coming back for what's left - I suggest you leg it back to camp chop-chop and answer the challenges carefully".
Made me think that a few months in central stores for a gong would have been far more relaxing.
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Cyprus 1963-64
Those servicemen who served in Cyprus during the period 21 December 1963 to 26 March 1964 will be awarded the General Service Medal with clasp “CYPRUS 1963-64”.
Those servicemen who served in Cyprus during the period 21 December 1963 to 26 March 1964 will be awarded the General Service Medal with clasp “CYPRUS 1963-64”.
'Cos I was Orderly Cpl at Akrotiri that day.
It was the Saturday before Xmas, and Cpl's Club Xmas Dance and Draw. An event that usually went on into the wee small hours. But I was tasked with shutting it down at 23:00 so that all the LoP's could be home in Limassol before 23:59.
It was the day the Greek Cypriots & Turkish Cypriots started violently disagreeing with each other.
Now a question that TTN might be able to answer, will my wife qualify? She'll be really narked if I get a GSM and she doesn't.
Last edited by ian16th; 15th Sep 2014 at 20:07. Reason: Correct spelling of Limassol
Well now Ian, that depends if she was serving in the armed forces in Cyprus during the dates stated, or not. Obviously she wasn't your wife at that stage if she was serving, as those were the days when women had to leave the service before they got married (as Mrs TTN will testify!) But as far as I know, the qualifications for the award of campaign medals apply equally to men and women.
One interesting case is the award of the Naval General Service medal, bar "Trafalgar" which was awarded to a Jane Townsend, who was on board HMS Defiance during the battle. Presumably she was overlooked when the order "show a leg" went out before the ship sailed! Another is the award of the same medal with the bar "1st June 1794", which was awarded to Daniel Tremendous Mackenzie, who was born onboard HMS Tremendous at the height of the battle. The medal was not awarded until 1848, when he was 54, but it was backdated to the day of his birth! Again, what his mother was doing onboard is unclear!
One interesting case is the award of the Naval General Service medal, bar "Trafalgar" which was awarded to a Jane Townsend, who was on board HMS Defiance during the battle. Presumably she was overlooked when the order "show a leg" went out before the ship sailed! Another is the award of the same medal with the bar "1st June 1794", which was awarded to Daniel Tremendous Mackenzie, who was born onboard HMS Tremendous at the height of the battle. The medal was not awarded until 1848, when he was 54, but it was backdated to the day of his birth! Again, what his mother was doing onboard is unclear!
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TTN
She was 'a dependent of a member of the force in Cyprus', so obviously won't qualify, but ironically she heard more gunfire then me!
I used to leave her in the hiring in Limassol every day, while I went to the safety of the SBA.
She was 'a dependent of a member of the force in Cyprus', so obviously won't qualify, but ironically she heard more gunfire then me!
I used to leave her in the hiring in Limassol every day, while I went to the safety of the SBA.
Rather than issue more gongs, how about giving us a day to day uniform where you can wear ribbons. My half dozen only ever get aired at the odd Dining In, the Summer Ball, the Annual Cockers P and a hats on discussion with no tea and biscuits!