Russia Warns Sweden and Finland Against NATO Membership
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Those figures in no way compare with what my eastern Ukrainian friends have told me about their views and those of their family and friends.
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I remember the polls that said Romney could win the election in the US or that one candidate would win the popular vote and another the electoral college in 2012. But in the end rather amazingly a large majority of the American people elected their hero Obama back into the White House.
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But West Coast, its really open to debate if he is an invader at all. He seems to be only taking back places which were/are part of Russia but through some quirk of fate have ended up on the wrong side of a line on the map.
But if you want to look at invaders you should look at our own actions such as in Iraq! Now that was an invasion with a truly terrible outcome!
But if you want to look at invaders you should look at our own actions such as in Iraq! Now that was an invasion with a truly terrible outcome!
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He seems to be only taking back places which were/are part of Russia but through some quirk of fate have ended up on the wrong side of a line on the map.
So do those inconvenient lines extend to other disputed territories and, if so, how far back can those claims extend?
Certainly, as you brought it up, the mess in the Middle East was caused by the West, British, mostly, with French assistance, drawing lines on a sand map.
Will the claims to the French Channel Ports be re-examined?
Can Norway argue the case for the Shetlands?
Care to have another go at re-claiming the 13 American colonies?
But I understand. It is all our, the West in general, and America in particular, fault.
Sorry. We'll give it back. You sort it out.
Originally Posted by ORAC
Really? Three independent polls by 3 different polling organisations would tend to indicate otherwise....
'I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself' comes to mind...
Not saying that People in Eastern Ukraine really support Putin's messing with Ukraine, but I don't like being fooled by institutions with an Agenda or at least a bias.
Since I disdain the fervor with which the Russian population seems to believe their Media in this affair I try to avoid doing the same with our own Media.
And then even from these statistics I can read a huge discrepancy between the general political views of Eastern Ukraine vs. Western Ukraine. In reality I'm really wondering what keeps this thing together?
And reading about the Level of hatred that has developped between pro Russian and pro Western population I really have some difficulties seeing a peaceful and united Ukraine in the medium term. Will have to get worse before getting better, I'm afraid.
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Don't talk to me about invaders, the memory of the Norman B'stard William still hangs like a dark cloud over our once fair and pleasant Saxon land. Laying waste to great swathes of the country to subjugate the peaceful agrarian populace with overbearing military force because he believed he was promised the crown by a dying old man (they probably didn't even speak the same language).
The differences between 11th C and now are: location, language and weaponry (and size of army).
Mister B
The differences between 11th C and now are: location, language and weaponry (and size of army).
Mister B
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But West Coast, its really open to debate if he is an invader at all. He seems to be only taking back places which were/are part of Russia but through some quirk of fate have ended up on the wrong side of a line on the map.
But if you want to look at invaders you should look at our own actions such as in Iraq!
Now that was an invasion with a truly terrible outcome!
This was not helped by all the people, who for all intents and purposes are terrorist sympathizers, or could accused of giving aid and comfort to the enemy, by wishing that the extreme minority should be running the country.
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rh200, Iraq going well, ha ha ha! Don't make me laugh. Two of my army friends who both served there told me they thought the whole thing was nothing but a total waste of time and that our actions made things far worse. In their words it was a war we should have never carried out.
It was not going well when we were there and has fallen apart more since we left. Not exactly as if we would want to keep forces there forever is it! That's the only reason the so called Afghan government will continue due to some US forces remaining, if they ever leave it will all fall apart to.
Compared to what we did in Iraq what Putin has done in Ukraine is nothing and I mean nothing! You really need to look at things more carefully than you currently do.
It was not going well when we were there and has fallen apart more since we left. Not exactly as if we would want to keep forces there forever is it! That's the only reason the so called Afghan government will continue due to some US forces remaining, if they ever leave it will all fall apart to.
Compared to what we did in Iraq what Putin has done in Ukraine is nothing and I mean nothing! You really need to look at things more carefully than you currently do.
Polls are quite a lot more believable than some self-selected set of friends of a person with a particular world view. Would that person have many friends that disagree with them anyhow? Where's the greater bias likely to be? This has been said before of course.
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Compared to what we did in Iraq
It's curious that you appear to have 'friends' in every part of the world up for discussion here Ronald, and that they all endorse your own particular viewpoints.
I've no doubt that if I were to offer some comment on Putin's military build-up in the Far North, for instance, you would retort that you have Eskimo friends who positively welcome Russian bomber overflights.
I've no doubt that if I were to offer some comment on Putin's military build-up in the Far North, for instance, you would retort that you have Eskimo friends who positively welcome Russian bomber overflights.
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Free the population?! You mean remove the things that protected the majority of the population such as the state itself, the military and security forces, smash huge amounts of their infrastructure, kill loads of people, likely in the hundreds of thousands or higher and all of this results in the strengthening of Al Qaeda like groups who were the exact enemy the war on terror was supposed to be fighting against! Saddam would have been able to fight them off but we removed him, Assad seems to be holding his own but western leaders wanted to remove him to. Similar groups exist in Libya thanks to us, Gaddafi would have been able to destroy such groups had we not attacked and removed him. Western foreign policy seems to lurch from one disaster to another.
The war on terror has been a total failure actually helping and spreading the groups it was supposed to destroy!
The war on terror has been a total failure actually helping and spreading the groups it was supposed to destroy!
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Mel, more and more people can see through the lies of the western elite. The US government and its collection of western puppet regimes/governments which is sadly what they/we have become.
Can't argue with you on the gist of that Ronald. The difference though is that most of us here can see that our leaders are far from perfect and we question and criticise their (in)actions, whereas your arguments lack credibility as you seem to slavishly applaud and cheer-on Putin regardless of his actions.
Originally Posted by melmothtw
It's curious that you appear to have 'friends' in every part of the world up for discussion here Ronald, and that they all endorse your own particular viewpoints.
I've no doubt that if I were to offer some comment on Putin's military build-up in the Far North, for instance, you would retort that you have Eskimo friends who positively welcome Russian bomber overflights.
I've no doubt that if I were to offer some comment on Putin's military build-up in the Far North, for instance, you would retort that you have Eskimo friends who positively welcome Russian bomber overflights.
Last time I looked, Iraq had not been added to the UK or become the next US state so I fail to see the comparison between it and Crimea.
The world has listened to Russian bullshit for many decades, but you know what, I don't read about the millions of people leaving their home countries to try to make better lives in Russia.
The world has listened to Russian bullshit for many decades, but you know what, I don't read about the millions of people leaving their home countries to try to make better lives in Russia.
