Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Flight Hours - Cold War Era

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Flight Hours - Cold War Era

Old 15th May 2014, 20:06
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: germany
Posts: 9
Flight Hours - Cold War Era

From the logbook of a HuAF captain who flew on MiG-21bis. The yearly flight-hours in the late '70s >

1977 - 133h 36m


1978 - 171h 3m


1979 - 139h 17m


Repülések száma = Flights
Nappal = Daylight
Éjjel = Night
Befüggönyzött kabinban = under curtain
Felhőben = in clouds
Korlátozott látás... = at restricted visibility

Please comment with your data from the same period!
The most interesting: USAFE F-4, Luftwaffe F-4F, RAF FGR Mk2., Lightning etc
MiG21SM is offline  
Old 15th May 2014, 23:44
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,897
I can give data from a decade later; 1989, last year of the Cold War (Tornado F3)

hrs
236 total
182 day
54 night
(6) twin-sticker
17 day IMC
16 night IMC

150 sorties

His average sortie length was 40 minutes, whereas mine was over an hour and a half.
I see he only had 26 hours in day / good weather,vs 165 hrs for me.

I would guess a large part of his sorties were GCI. I had 47 sorties on low level affiliation training or big exercises, and 10 dedicated D/ACT.

I note the Hungarian guy did more hours IMC at night in 1979 than he actually spent airborne*
(*yes, I was the Sqn stats Officer for a while)
Fox3WheresMyBanana is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 08:34
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 30 Miles from the A1
Posts: 364
F3 - and how many practice Q launches at weekends for the "Wing Commander's AFC".

Knight's Templar this afty??
2Planks is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 08:47
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,311
RAF F4 ( AD), First Tourist...

Jun 81 - Jun 82
Day 160:55
Night 49:20
wiggy is online now  
Old 16th May 2014, 09:37
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,897
2Planks- One!, and he didn't get one!
Fox3WheresMyBanana is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 11:33
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: germany
Posts: 9
Thank you for your comments!

His average sortie length was 40 minutes,
Or shorter..

I would guess a large part of his sorties were GCI
He is from 2nd sqdn. Taszar airbase, MiG-21bis. Their primary task was 'dogfight'(most of the GCI work were done by the other sqdn. with MiG-21PF).
10 days in '78 May for example:


Rep-gep tipusa = aircraft type, 75 = MiG-21bis, 66 = MiG-21U, 69 = MiG-21UM
Melyik ulesbol lett vegrehajtva = from which seat on double seater, E = front, H = back-seat
A repules max. magassaga(km-ben) = max height of the flight in Km
Tenyleges idojaras = real weather
f. teto = cloud roof
f. alap = cloud base
borults = overcast
latas = visibility

The exercises >

533 gp. leharc = 2 vs 2 dogfight
500 "O" = low level, complex aerobatics, teaching from back-seat, over the airbase(with full afterburner from takeoff to landing, the 'famous' Soviet 500 )
226 = low level night intercept
212 = night from backseat as instructor
124/333 = attack on other airfield with full squadron
124/111/68 = attack on other airfield with full squadron
71/534 = 2 vs 2 dogfight
71/535 = 2 vs 2 dogfight
71/536 = 2 vs 2 dogfight
71/537 = 2 vs 2 dogfight
498 = complex aerobatics, ACM, as instructor from backseat
71/95 = low level intercept in pair
71/19/134 = chek flight in front seat - low level route flying
71/250 = low level intercept in clouds, night

and 10 dedicated D/ACT.
Officially 0 for him. Just some occassional 'bouncing' with Hungary based Soviet MiG-23M,ML

I note the Hungarian guy did more hours IMC at night in 1979 than he actually spent airborne*


RAF F4 ( AD), First Tourist...

Jun 81 - Jun 82
Day 160:55
Night 49:20
Please give the Nr. of flights also!
Is this typical for Germany based RAF F-4 units also in that period? AFAIK the USAFE and Luftwaffe F-4 guys flew less in the late '70s.

Last edited by MiG21SM; 16th May 2014 at 15:02.
MiG21SM is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 13:41
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,897
Would be interested to know what they called a dogfight
Base Height?
Radar-Vis or just Visual?
How many splits in a sortie? 2/3?
How 'canned' the exercises were?

..and what did they call "low level"?
Fox3WheresMyBanana is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 13:47
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,017
Those with an interest in this area would do worse than obtain a copy of
Nigel Walpole's "Thinking the Unthinkable" Nigel Walpole's "Thinking the Unthinkable"
. Although it deals primarily with the former East German Air Force (EGAF) there is much that could be read across to the Hungarian Air force of the period.

YS
Yellow Sun is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 14:36
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: germany
Posts: 9
Would be interested to know what they called a dogfight
'Manőverező légiharc' = 'Manouvering air combat'

Base Height?
For example > nr.500 started at 50-100m with horizontal 8, with full afterburner, full overload, vertical man's etc..bit something like an airshow. With full burner for 12-14min, must to pull really hard, average G checked by black-box tape after. If you switch off the full burner for a second or the average G's are too low: try again. Nothing tactical, just complex aerobatics at the deck, something like physical training for dogfight....

Radar-Vis or just Visual?
Visual

How many splits in a sortie? 2/3?
Most of the exercises in the series 482-592 came from the Soviet standard ACT program '500s'.
For example n.533-37, some scripted scenarios, 2 in each: you are on CAP, you are under attack, must to react with manouvers 'loop' 'knot' 'roof' ' shell' 'fork'
In other scenarios you are the attacker, in others free-fight etc.

..and what did they call "low level"?
For example this: " 226 = low level night intercept " at the possible lowest height where your radar is working(21bis - no lookdawn capability

Last edited by MiG21SM; 18th May 2014 at 14:28.
MiG21SM is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 14:54
  #10 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: germany
Posts: 9
I think the first RAF pilots who tasted the '21. 1992 Hungary:



MiG21SM is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 15:52
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lincs
Posts: 2,132
Link back to Air Forces Monthly thread for further discussion.

Why didnt Warpac states adopt MiG-23 en masse and still relied on MiG-21 by 1990? - Page 3

Why didnt Warpac states adopt MiG-23 en masse and still relied on MiG-21 by 1990?
TEEEJ is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 16:48
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 747
In 1977-1980, aircrew on the Phantom FGR2 Wing at RAF Wildenrath could get around 30 hours a month. A number who transferred in from a previous tour on the Phantom in Germany in the strike/attack/recce role were getting their 1000-hour Phantom badge part way through their 2nd tour. A major contributor to getting these hours were the MINEVALs, MAXEVALs and TACEVALs with an event occurring approximately every 4-6 weeks. During these, aircraft availability was maximized with up to 12 aircraft on a 10 AE squadron whenever it was possible to generate the in-use reserve from 2nd-line and also "arrange" for the aircraft due out to Major at RAF St Athan being retained for a few days after the replacement had been delivered. The normal modus operandi would be to have the QRA(I) aircraft + 7 others each on their own in 8 x Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS) and 4 x "spare" aircraft doubled up in a further 2 x HASs. It was not uncommon for each crew to get the 3 sorties allowed each day by RAFG regulations and I distinctly remember occasional waivers being obtained for a 4th sortie in a day. I also remember 92 Sqn getting more than 65 hours in one day and an average serviceability rate of 118% for a 3-day event (before the NATO rules were changed only allowing aircraft established - with tail numbers agreed at the start of the evaluation - to count).
RAFEngO74to09 is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 17:09
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,318
It was not uncommon for each crew to get the 3 sorties allowed each day by RAFG regulations and I distinctly remember occasional waivers being obtained for a 4th sortie in a day. I also remember 92 Sqn getting more than 65 hours in one day
Not difficult when you didn't need to (have to) do any flight planning....
Wrathmonk is offline  
Old 16th May 2014, 18:27
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 501
Guess you must have been one of those Bruggen wing targets then....
27mm is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 14:13
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,318
Guess you must have been one of those Bruggen wing targets then
Not Bruggen and only a target when the AD playmates had been given exact route, timings, squawk etc to help them find us .....
Wrathmonk is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 16:53
  #16 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: germany
Posts: 9
In 1977-1980, aircrew on the Phantom FGR2 Wing at RAF Wildenrath could get around 30 hours a month.
Do I understand correctly? Three consecutive years in Wildenrath = more than 1000 hours on the Phantom? Well...respect.
MiG21SM is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 17:47
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 91
<<Not difficult when you didn't need to (have to) do any flight planning...>>

And they usually briefed on Guard......
60024 is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 20:02
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 501
Well maybe that happened once or twice, but LLAD in a Wilders jet was definitely the sport of kings, especially when the gingerbeers took the fletchers off.....
27mm is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 20:12
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,744
Well done 27mm! You sure did good against all those LCR crews working up on singleton "no evasion" sorties.

OAP
Onceapilot is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 20:20
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,744
BTW 27mm, the sport of kings was ACM, or maybe not, in an F4?
Why are you not 20mm?

OAP
Onceapilot is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.