Nigeria kidnapping-UK mil to be involved.
Rather amusing to read that some posters are still claiming that SF is the magic answer to this. The opportunity for any targeted operation was lost over three weeks ago. These children are now dispersed over a very wide area split into small groups. What are SF going to do? Wander through a forest bigger than Wales and hope they bump into a few?
The only way to find them now is through aerial reconnaissance and humint, and negotiate their release. Unfortunately as already posted the NAF is corrupt and feckless and The Nigerian intelligence service (SSS) is no better. Boko Haram have penetrated it far more effectively than they have penetrated Boko Haram.
Probably it will be the French who sort this out. They have aerial reconnaissance attitudes in place in N'Djamena and unlike us, they have developed a reasonable humint network in NE Nigeria and Cameroon as a result of several of their nationals having been kidnapped up there (a family of seven, then a priest) and spending a lot of time and effort negotiating their release. By contrast, when UK had a national kidnapped up there in 2012, we just sent in a (noisy) Shadow and the Shakeys, botched the operation, and burned any humint network we had up there.
However, even if we do find these children, it will not fix the root cause of the problem which is the utterly feckless and corrupt governance in Nigeria. The international community should start on its own doorstep by making it harder for international banks to accept deposits from Nigeria. At the moment, it is only the USA which really vets deposits in its banks from Nigeria. If Nigerians officials were unable to take their stolen money out of the country they would at least be keeping it in the Nigerian economy. Also, there should be bigger fines for companies which pay backhanders to Nigerian officials in order to win contracts - again the USA is leading the way in this by heavily fining any US registered company which pays a bribe in Nigeria. The EU has laws in place but they are not so rigourously enforced. China and Israel are the worst offenders (which is the main reason you see so many Chinese and Israeli arms in Nigeria).
Nigeria is on the way to becoming a failed state and is not far from an all out uprising of poor workers against the staggeringly rich and corrupt officials.
The only way to find them now is through aerial reconnaissance and humint, and negotiate their release. Unfortunately as already posted the NAF is corrupt and feckless and The Nigerian intelligence service (SSS) is no better. Boko Haram have penetrated it far more effectively than they have penetrated Boko Haram.
Probably it will be the French who sort this out. They have aerial reconnaissance attitudes in place in N'Djamena and unlike us, they have developed a reasonable humint network in NE Nigeria and Cameroon as a result of several of their nationals having been kidnapped up there (a family of seven, then a priest) and spending a lot of time and effort negotiating their release. By contrast, when UK had a national kidnapped up there in 2012, we just sent in a (noisy) Shadow and the Shakeys, botched the operation, and burned any humint network we had up there.
However, even if we do find these children, it will not fix the root cause of the problem which is the utterly feckless and corrupt governance in Nigeria. The international community should start on its own doorstep by making it harder for international banks to accept deposits from Nigeria. At the moment, it is only the USA which really vets deposits in its banks from Nigeria. If Nigerians officials were unable to take their stolen money out of the country they would at least be keeping it in the Nigerian economy. Also, there should be bigger fines for companies which pay backhanders to Nigerian officials in order to win contracts - again the USA is leading the way in this by heavily fining any US registered company which pays a bribe in Nigeria. The EU has laws in place but they are not so rigourously enforced. China and Israel are the worst offenders (which is the main reason you see so many Chinese and Israeli arms in Nigeria).
Nigeria is on the way to becoming a failed state and is not far from an all out uprising of poor workers against the staggeringly rich and corrupt officials.
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Probably it will be the French who sort this out. They have aerial reconnaissance attitudes in place in N'Djamena
Hate to be the " Guy Gibson dog in the logs", but I've seen some media stories suggesting that "procol harum" are funded from the UK. That being the case, perhaps shutting down this funding might be more practical than military action. No doubt any decision on SF deployment will depend on potential for political credibility than military sense. I just hope that these children are released from the scum, with no casualties. Good luck to anyone who becomes involved in this, do your job, and come home safe.
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Didn't someone mention France would solve it ?
This in my local newspaper
France offers to host African security summit on Boko Haram
This in my local newspaper
France offers to host African security summit on Boko Haram
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If western SF are to operate in Nigeria they must operate autonomously - if they have to work in conjunction with Nigerian forces it will be a complete waste of time and could cost the lives of foreign forces. Nigeria is a country of total corruption and incompetence whose government has the sole purpose of personal enrichment - they do not want to waste time and effort trying to rescue the girls when they could be making more money. I have worked for several years in the country - the only place in a long overseas career where I had armed bodyguards - and found it to be the most unpleasant place by far with a population that would cheat ,lie and steal without compunction.
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Apology
If I offended anybody at the start of this thread, by calling them PH and appearing to be flippant then I apologise, unreservedly.
The story is already slipping down the newspapers online editions, way down on the Telegraph, 3rd or 4th on the Guardian and then only on there because Mrs Obama is highlighting it (ie that's the interesting bit).
And that's the truth, outside of that its just another minging story from an utterly minging part of Gods earth. The politicians have jumped in, probably committed our servicemen to God knows what yet again in such a thoughtless and callous way it beggars belief.
In the Graud, there are long, long online replies about the situation-some even suggest that the terror group involved are being funded by Saudi Arabia.
Nigeria kidnapping: why Boko Haram is a top security priority for the US | World news | theguardian.com main-1 Main trailblock
ditable trailblock - news:Position3:sublinks
If you can be even bothered to follow it.
What to believe?
But I say again we as a military nation are utterly incapable of affecting the situation on the ground here to a positive outcome, without a major risk to our own individual military people involved.
We are not world police and this could end in an utter disaster for our people if pursued.
Its not on. Sad, but Nigeria's problem
The story is already slipping down the newspapers online editions, way down on the Telegraph, 3rd or 4th on the Guardian and then only on there because Mrs Obama is highlighting it (ie that's the interesting bit).
And that's the truth, outside of that its just another minging story from an utterly minging part of Gods earth. The politicians have jumped in, probably committed our servicemen to God knows what yet again in such a thoughtless and callous way it beggars belief.
In the Graud, there are long, long online replies about the situation-some even suggest that the terror group involved are being funded by Saudi Arabia.
Nigeria kidnapping: why Boko Haram is a top security priority for the US | World news | theguardian.com main-1 Main trailblock
ditable trailblock - news:Position3:sublinksIf you can be even bothered to follow it.
What to believe?
But I say again we as a military nation are utterly incapable of affecting the situation on the ground here to a positive outcome, without a major risk to our own individual military people involved.
We are not world police and this could end in an utter disaster for our people if pursued.
Its not on. Sad, but Nigeria's problem
BCGallacher,
"Nigeria is a country of total corruption and incompetence whose government has the sole purpose of personal enrichment"
I read that and my mind turns to modern Britain. Perhaps the likes of Hague and Camoron recognise kindred spirits. I just hope that any military involvement from our country Is successful, and as far as possible, sparing in casualties. Unfortunately, if the pollies are involved, I won't hold my breath.
Smudge
"Nigeria is a country of total corruption and incompetence whose government has the sole purpose of personal enrichment"
I read that and my mind turns to modern Britain. Perhaps the likes of Hague and Camoron recognise kindred spirits. I just hope that any military involvement from our country Is successful, and as far as possible, sparing in casualties. Unfortunately, if the pollies are involved, I won't hold my breath.
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Smudge - If you think that British politicians are comparable to Nigerian you have little perception of what totally corrupt means. As an example the late unlamented Sani Abacha and his family were reckoned to have aquired something in the region of 6billion dollars during his regime. 60% of the oil revenues were estimated to disapear at one time.Everything in Nigeria runs on 'Dash' - you would have to be involved in some kind of business venture to understand the all pervading culture of graft and bribery.What happens in the UK cannot be remotely compared to Nigeria - be grateful that it is one of the least corrupt countries in the world. I have spent years in some of the worst - Nigeria,Bangladesh,sadly The Philippines and Uzbekistan so I do have a reasonable knowledge of the subject.
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bcgallacher. I'd say you make a good point. UK side we have an additional problem being the former colonial power and all the odium that stirs up. To me, this is another example of the perils of an Empire being "railroaded" by a benign "friend" (shan't say who but the strange verb may give a clue) dictating a "freedom" timetable.
Nigeria was not ready for independence but received it anway. Had the clock been run a bit slower, lessons may have been taught and learned.
Nigeria was not ready for independence but received it anway. Had the clock been run a bit slower, lessons may have been taught and learned.
Smudge - as BCG said - you have to live and work in Nigeria for a while to fully understand how utterly corrupt and venal every level of Nigerian society is. Everybody is only interested in themselves and will steal anything they can, and are continually on the look out for opportunities to scam each other.
Whenever there is a car-crash in Nigeria, passers-by flock around not to help the victims but just to loot them.
There is a culture of impunity that means that people in power are completely immune from prosecution. They will run people down in their large vehicle convoys and not even stop. Ministers will brazenly steal billions from their ministry, and there will be no pressure whatsoever for them to resign - simply because everybody else in power is also stealing as much as they can.
The military is no better - as I alluded in an earlier post, most equipment is procured at great expense just so that senior officers can extract huge kickbacks from the arms dealers (usually Israeli and Chinese since western manufacturers cannot pay kickbacks nowadays). The equipment is then just left to rot because there is not enough money to be made out of maintaining it.
The reason these girls were kidnapped in the first place is because the Nigerian soldiers who were supposed to guard them accepted a bribe from Boko Haram to run away.
Whenever there is a car-crash in Nigeria, passers-by flock around not to help the victims but just to loot them.
There is a culture of impunity that means that people in power are completely immune from prosecution. They will run people down in their large vehicle convoys and not even stop. Ministers will brazenly steal billions from their ministry, and there will be no pressure whatsoever for them to resign - simply because everybody else in power is also stealing as much as they can.
The military is no better - as I alluded in an earlier post, most equipment is procured at great expense just so that senior officers can extract huge kickbacks from the arms dealers (usually Israeli and Chinese since western manufacturers cannot pay kickbacks nowadays). The equipment is then just left to rot because there is not enough money to be made out of maintaining it.
The reason these girls were kidnapped in the first place is because the Nigerian soldiers who were supposed to guard them accepted a bribe from Boko Haram to run away.
you have to live and work in Nigeria for a while to fully understand how utterly corrupt and venal every level of Nigerian society is. Everybody is only interested in themselves and will steal anything they can, and are continually on the look out for opportunities to scam each other.
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Unfortunately the generalisation is correct - there are indeed some honest people,the driver of our crew bus found my wallet while cleaning the bus and returned it to me intact - there was $900 in it.I gave him $100 for his honesty. Have a look at the world corruption index - that will give you some idea of the situation in Nigeria. Where in the country were you based and what line of work were you in? I worked in Lagos,Kano,Sokoto,Kaduna and for a short time Maiduguri. I felt safer in the northern Muslim areas than in the Christian South but the way the system worked was the same.
I was based in Eket, Port Harcourt, Warri and Lagos flying helicopters supporting oil and gas from 1996-2005. I was taken hostage in 1999, so I think my comments are quite impartial. What used to disgust me more were American evangelists flying in in their Gulfstreams and taken the last 20 naira from the audience, or sitting in Business class with Wole Soyinko.....
To be fair, many Westerners have no idea about the very low wages paid to many African employees.
I was stuck with a dead jet in Dakar many years ago - the other 3 had flown back to the UK. One of the hotel's African cleaners asked me about a crate of empties which one of my colleagues had left in his hotel room. At first I thought he was making a complaint about the state of the room, but it soon became clear that he was saying that he'd be quite happy to remove them. But he pleaded for a note to say that he'd been allowed to take them, in order not to be accused of theft. I don't know how much a crate of empties gained him at the market, but he was very grateful.
When I was at school in the late 1960s, we had a few boys whose fathers were in colonial service in Africa. A friend told me how much their Nyasaland 'houseboy' was paid - or rather, how little. When I asked why they didn't pay him more, he told me that, if they did, it would very probably be a death sentence for the poor chap - someone would soon knock him on the head and be after his better paid job.
Greed and corruption at every level, it would seem.
I was stuck with a dead jet in Dakar many years ago - the other 3 had flown back to the UK. One of the hotel's African cleaners asked me about a crate of empties which one of my colleagues had left in his hotel room. At first I thought he was making a complaint about the state of the room, but it soon became clear that he was saying that he'd be quite happy to remove them. But he pleaded for a note to say that he'd been allowed to take them, in order not to be accused of theft. I don't know how much a crate of empties gained him at the market, but he was very grateful.
When I was at school in the late 1960s, we had a few boys whose fathers were in colonial service in Africa. A friend told me how much their Nyasaland 'houseboy' was paid - or rather, how little. When I asked why they didn't pay him more, he told me that, if they did, it would very probably be a death sentence for the poor chap - someone would soon knock him on the head and be after his better paid job.
Greed and corruption at every level, it would seem.
Once I was camping on my own in some remote place in Niger, about 10km from nearest village. Just as I was getting into my dosbag, I was annoyed to see a mobylette put-putting over the desert towards me, alerted by my camp-fire. "Bonsoir Toubob", he greeted me, "Qu'est-que je jeux faire pour vous?". Feeling slightly annoyed that I'd been spotted, I gave him a few francs just to get rid of him, and told him to bring me a couple of beers.
About two hours later, I was woken by a headlight and sound of mobylette. "Voila Toubob" and he hands me two warm beers, and the change. I felt a bit guilty after that!
Back to Nigeria, I see from the Grauniad that the septics have deployed manned surveillance aircraft to look for the girls. Interesting to note that they haven't deployed their Niamey-based UAVs - no doubt the Nigerians would have objected to UAVs as they wouldn't be able to insist on one of their "intelligence experts" riding in the back (and getting paid handsomely for their "expertise").
About two hours later, I was woken by a headlight and sound of mobylette. "Voila Toubob" and he hands me two warm beers, and the change. I felt a bit guilty after that!
Back to Nigeria, I see from the Grauniad that the septics have deployed manned surveillance aircraft to look for the girls. Interesting to note that they haven't deployed their Niamey-based UAVs - no doubt the Nigerians would have objected to UAVs as they wouldn't be able to insist on one of their "intelligence experts" riding in the back (and getting paid handsomely for their "expertise").
Start brushing up your Hausa
Because Nigeria is on the way to failed state and there is lots of oil there too -
BBC News - Nigeria soldiers 'fire at army commander in Maiduguri'
BBC News - Nigeria soldiers 'fire at army commander in Maiduguri'
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Whats hausa?
Seriously, a type of lager?
On the C4 it was still a story, but now more about how ****e the Nigerian Govt. is.
Any UK SF deployed will be returning home - the story will fade out. It was a Tory spinner to pacify the press. Silly season soon, after the EU elections.
As for oil...nothing will change in the region? I expect most Western oil companies know their way about the private security industry/western govt. route well enough not for us to notice.
Plenty of oil and gas in many neighboring W Africa countries anyway - bitter cynic in me says I hope so = my share prices in Cameroon might rise a bit.
On the C4 it was still a story, but now more about how ****e the Nigerian Govt. is.
Any UK SF deployed will be returning home - the story will fade out. It was a Tory spinner to pacify the press. Silly season soon, after the EU elections.
As for oil...nothing will change in the region? I expect most Western oil companies know their way about the private security industry/western govt. route well enough not for us to notice.
Plenty of oil and gas in many neighboring W Africa countries anyway - bitter cynic in me says I hope so = my share prices in Cameroon might rise a bit.
'Tis an ill wind that blows nobody any good. 
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Hausa are the tribes in the North of Nigeria and primarily Muslim, the 'Federals' as the bunch in the West, around Lagos are called, used the Hausa to stir up trouble with the Biafrans, (mainly Christians), the Federals, including the Nigerian Army, then moved in and so started the Biafran war because the Biafrans were sitting on a whole lot of oil.
At least that is how it was explained to me when I was out there in 1969.
At least that is how it was explained to me when I was out there in 1969.