Air Cadets grounded?
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There are BGA clubs with paid instructors, several of them in the summer at Lasham. A glider being on the civil register with BGA oversight is no bar to the kind of operation the ATC are running, though the instructors are meant to jump through more hoops for their medical.
However since the BGA requires a Silver badge before becoming an instructor I suspect that would be a problem for many of the ATC's instructors.
However since the BGA requires a Silver badge before becoming an instructor I suspect that would be a problem for many of the ATC's instructors.
Commercial Pilot!!!!
the VGS is in civil terms an operation requiring an AOC and just like any commercial operation it requires its pilots to hold commercial pilot qualifications.
The VGS system is not the equivalent of an AOC operation; it is the equivalent to a 'corporate flight department' i.e. a private operation providing free flights to non-employees. The civil equivalent would be a pilot training organisation, which at the glider level, equates to the present BGA club system, albeit with cadets still not paying for their flights in the same way that BGA trainees do.
However since the RAF own the train-set, they could insist on whatever civilian equivalent type of organisation and pilot licence requirements that they think suitable for the level of risk they assign to the work.
Flug
However since the RAF own the train-set, they could insist on whatever civilian equivalent type of organisation and pilot licence requirements that they think suitable for the level of risk they assign to the work.
Flug
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Flugplatz
While the AOC equivalent may be up for interpretation at the very least the equivalent civil operation is a commercial pilot training establishment, and this requires the instructors to have a CPL.
However as you say it is their train set and as long as the aircraft are on the military register ( or at least in the service of the crown ) the RAF can do what they like regarding pilot qualifications they issue.
However as you say it is their train set and as long as the aircraft are on the military register ( or at least in the service of the crown ) the RAF can do what they like regarding pilot qualifications they issue.
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CPL and payment
The key to this is that in civilian flying, CPL is required as the instructors fly FOR HIRE or REWARD; in VGS the staff performed extremely competently Without any reward. QED !
They're all now reflecting on their magnificent reward - left out in the cold without even some decent communications.
They're all now reflecting on their magnificent reward - left out in the cold without even some decent communications.
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Enigma
While this is largely an accadmic discussion as the military have their own pilot qualification system it would seem that your hire & reward opinion is only good for teaching private flying in the club environment, I would be very surprised if his would be allowed at a commercial flying school.
As the VGS is clearly not a private flying club, under civil regulations it would fall into the commercial sphere of operations.
However your point about the way VGS staff have been treated is well made.
As the VGS is clearly not a private flying club, under civil regulations it would fall into the commercial sphere of operations.
However your point about the way VGS staff have been treated is well made.
A Part-FCL PPL holder may hold an FI certificate to instruct at up to PPL level. For PPL instructing he/she must have passed the CPL exams, but this is not required for instructing at LAPL level.
In either case, the PPL/FI may receive remuneration for providing flight instruction. This has been the case ever since the Aircrew Regulation came into effect in 2011...... Hitherto a R/BCPL was the minimum licence required for a pilot to receive remuneration, but this is no longer the case.
In either case, the PPL/FI may receive remuneration for providing flight instruction. This has been the case ever since the Aircrew Regulation came into effect in 2011...... Hitherto a R/BCPL was the minimum licence required for a pilot to receive remuneration, but this is no longer the case.
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Pardon my asking but why is the VGS "clearly not a private flying club"?
It's certainly not a commercial airline or business, it's only open to members of the ATC. Joe Public can't turn up and hand over cash just to have a go.........
The VGS are far more akin to civilian gliding clubs, only the clothing and the unbelievable amounts of paperwork seem to be different.
It's certainly not a commercial airline or business, it's only open to members of the ATC. Joe Public can't turn up and hand over cash just to have a go.........
The VGS are far more akin to civilian gliding clubs, only the clothing and the unbelievable amounts of paperwork seem to be different.
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Leon, concerning your post No. 61:
I am not sure which Gliding School you are referring to here, but I agree that it is completely outrageous behavior - especially the use of non approved stitching to sew on badges! You really should name and shame the school in question!!
I was somewhat flabbergasted though when I read that you had witnessed the yellow landrovers driving at excess speed! Are you REALLY sure you saw this with your own eyes because this really is a very serious allegation?
In my 30 odd years involved with ATC gliding I never heard of such a thing, and it is beyond the scope of my imagination to believe that any Gliding School staff member - Staff Cadets included- would ever contemplate exceeding any obligatory speed limit!!
Ok, I'll spill the beans on some goings on within VGS over the past couple of years that I've seen (and, no, I won't name the VGS, but they may recognise who they are):
- Flying when the wind is gusting out of limits. (Using hand held anemometer to measure wind without applying the correction)
- Landing an aircraft in an area of rough ground following a rough running engine. Doing a non-engineering qualified inspection on the aircraft to release it for flight following the rough landing and a couple of engine ground runs before flying the aircraft again. (Apparently within the allowable regulation for suspected carb icing)
- Flying in flying suits that have not been accepted by a SE fitter.
- Stitching their own badges on their flying suits with non-approved thread and no inspection by an SE fitter.
- Flying after SS+15 (which is night time in air cadet orders, which is prohibited). (An error in time keeping)
- Breaching the flying order book on opening hours.
- Having out of servicing headsets.
- Anomalies in the parachute paperwork.
- An out of date extinguisher on the fire trailer. (Issue technically belongs to the fire section)
- An out of date fire extinguisher in their caravan. (Likewise above)
- Anomalies in the F700 paperwork.
- Caught speeding in the yellow landrovers on several occasions.
- Flying when the wind is gusting out of limits. (Using hand held anemometer to measure wind without applying the correction)
- Landing an aircraft in an area of rough ground following a rough running engine. Doing a non-engineering qualified inspection on the aircraft to release it for flight following the rough landing and a couple of engine ground runs before flying the aircraft again. (Apparently within the allowable regulation for suspected carb icing)
- Flying in flying suits that have not been accepted by a SE fitter.
- Stitching their own badges on their flying suits with non-approved thread and no inspection by an SE fitter.
- Flying after SS+15 (which is night time in air cadet orders, which is prohibited). (An error in time keeping)
- Breaching the flying order book on opening hours.
- Having out of servicing headsets.
- Anomalies in the parachute paperwork.
- An out of date extinguisher on the fire trailer. (Issue technically belongs to the fire section)
- An out of date fire extinguisher in their caravan. (Likewise above)
- Anomalies in the F700 paperwork.
- Caught speeding in the yellow landrovers on several occasions.
I was somewhat flabbergasted though when I read that you had witnessed the yellow landrovers driving at excess speed! Are you REALLY sure you saw this with your own eyes because this really is a very serious allegation?
In my 30 odd years involved with ATC gliding I never heard of such a thing, and it is beyond the scope of my imagination to believe that any Gliding School staff member - Staff Cadets included- would ever contemplate exceeding any obligatory speed limit!!
Serious "goings on" at VGS units
I am sure that Middleton is fully aware of this outrageous behaviour in the VGS organisation and will be taking these observations into consideration when deciding which VGS units to shut down (as if it makes any difference at the moment).
Come on, what's happening chaps?
Come on, what's happening chaps?
Post 61
Yes Clive i read that one and just 'groaned' at what it has come to.
Thank God we had no 'badges' to go on our 5th hand ex Korean War silver blue/oil/blood stained suits. WE also had very smart 10th hand denims and WELLIES (some even had a 'matched' pair.)
Staff Cadet flying never took place unless the cables were 'twinkling' over the tarmac bits and the hangar lights were on.
Never saw a speeding Landrover or a parachute,in fact if you could get a LR up to 60 i think it made Air Cadet News;but a west country school rolled two rovers and got closed down. One of the 'rollers' became a centre instuctor !!!!
Mind you we used to get 'oodles' of Cadet solo's and it was quite normal for an entire course to go solo on a 6 day job.
None of this 'nanny stitching' nonsense;when a centre bod came down he was more likely to relate a story about a rough running Sabre engine in his Tempest on a ground attack sortie where the leading machine 'vaporised' in radar controlled flack.What have these absolute Idiots (in charge) done to the organisation that did not need 'reinventing',because it did what it said on the tin;Flew Cadets,got them solo,and then the keen ones kept it going until the next 'batch' came along and kept the cycle going.The RAF never knew what a simple and safe operation they had;all down to continuity and people who knew the business from the grass roots. Frelon you will have to come clean about shooting the Austin with a bow and arrow or you will not be able do any winching when the organisation starts again.
Syerston knows all about 'stitching'; Numpty control has a MBA in Stitching the organisation up big time.
Thank God we had no 'badges' to go on our 5th hand ex Korean War silver blue/oil/blood stained suits. WE also had very smart 10th hand denims and WELLIES (some even had a 'matched' pair.)
Staff Cadet flying never took place unless the cables were 'twinkling' over the tarmac bits and the hangar lights were on.
Never saw a speeding Landrover or a parachute,in fact if you could get a LR up to 60 i think it made Air Cadet News;but a west country school rolled two rovers and got closed down. One of the 'rollers' became a centre instuctor !!!!
Mind you we used to get 'oodles' of Cadet solo's and it was quite normal for an entire course to go solo on a 6 day job.
None of this 'nanny stitching' nonsense;when a centre bod came down he was more likely to relate a story about a rough running Sabre engine in his Tempest on a ground attack sortie where the leading machine 'vaporised' in radar controlled flack.What have these absolute Idiots (in charge) done to the organisation that did not need 'reinventing',because it did what it said on the tin;Flew Cadets,got them solo,and then the keen ones kept it going until the next 'batch' came along and kept the cycle going.The RAF never knew what a simple and safe operation they had;all down to continuity and people who knew the business from the grass roots. Frelon you will have to come clean about shooting the Austin with a bow and arrow or you will not be able do any winching when the organisation starts again.
Syerston knows all about 'stitching'; Numpty control has a MBA in Stitching the organisation up big time.
Last edited by POBJOY; 11th Jan 2016 at 21:31.
Non-approved thread eh? Good to see attention being firmly focused on the things that matter! They might not be able to keep simple sailplanes serviceable, and they may have taken the definition of the word 'pause' to another level entirely, but - by God- the RAF's proud tradition of the finest aeronautical Haberdashery WILL prevail!
There are reasons to use the Squippers and their 'approved' thread.
1. The thread is supposed to be flame retardent and so it makes the bits inside a growbag easier to identify after an accident! Seriously, I have heard of aircraft accidents where body parts had to be identified by DNA and what items of clothing they were wrapped in.
2. If the badge falls off due to poor stitching quality and causes a control restriction and it was done by the Squippers then it is the RAF's fault. If it is done by an individual then it is theirs.
3. Aircrew Equipment Assemblies (AEA) are part of the airworthiness system for the aircraft (for reasons like the ones above). Any use of non-approved materials is a modification and so needs the authority to grant the approval for its use.
4. Gashly tacked on badges look rubbish!
The B Word
1. The thread is supposed to be flame retardent and so it makes the bits inside a growbag easier to identify after an accident! Seriously, I have heard of aircraft accidents where body parts had to be identified by DNA and what items of clothing they were wrapped in.
2. If the badge falls off due to poor stitching quality and causes a control restriction and it was done by the Squippers then it is the RAF's fault. If it is done by an individual then it is theirs.
3. Aircrew Equipment Assemblies (AEA) are part of the airworthiness system for the aircraft (for reasons like the ones above). Any use of non-approved materials is a modification and so needs the authority to grant the approval for its use.
4. Gashly tacked on badges look rubbish!
The B Word
The B Word,
How I've managed to fly gliders, motor gliders and tugs for nearly 50 years without using "approved" thread to attach badges to my clothing is a complete mystery to me!
Never in all my years of aviation has a badge dropped off my clothing and caused a control restriction - I guess I've been lucky.
Maybe my "gashly tacked on badges" have looked rubbish, but they've never stopped my enjoyment of flying, nor affected the quality of instruction that I give, nor caused a flight safety issue.
However, what is evidently clear is that people like you, with a firm grip of hiding behind the utterly trivial and inessential, are the real reason that young lads have been denied the chance of gliding for two years.
Do you really believe in the utter garbage that you post?
How I've managed to fly gliders, motor gliders and tugs for nearly 50 years without using "approved" thread to attach badges to my clothing is a complete mystery to me!
Never in all my years of aviation has a badge dropped off my clothing and caused a control restriction - I guess I've been lucky.
Maybe my "gashly tacked on badges" have looked rubbish, but they've never stopped my enjoyment of flying, nor affected the quality of instruction that I give, nor caused a flight safety issue.
However, what is evidently clear is that people like you, with a firm grip of hiding behind the utterly trivial and inessential, are the real reason that young lads have been denied the chance of gliding for two years.
Do you really believe in the utter garbage that you post?
I suspect that the B-word on this occasion is 'Bulldust'!
But seriously B-word, I'm with 1.3. Do you really believe what you just wrote? Really? I can't imagine a Viking burning post-prang, a Vigi might, but even then one would hope that it would be the only one lost that day (if not that decade) so identifying the occupants shouldn't be too onerous.
But seriously B-word, I'm with 1.3. Do you really believe what you just wrote? Really? I can't imagine a Viking burning post-prang, a Vigi might, but even then one would hope that it would be the only one lost that day (if not that decade) so identifying the occupants shouldn't be too onerous.
Avoid imitations
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Non approved thread....tut, tut, what depths can one sink to?
I've been aviating since 1972 and for much of that time, I have to admit that no-one has bothered to approve my thread. Sounds like I've been extremely lucky in that so far my trousers have never fallen down and jammed the controls, especially when pulling G.
I've been aviating since 1972 and for much of that time, I have to admit that no-one has bothered to approve my thread. Sounds like I've been extremely lucky in that so far my trousers have never fallen down and jammed the controls, especially when pulling G.