Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
Hi ancientaviator62, thanks also for the information. I read about the Argentine Herc and Sea Harrier shoot down some years back. Hard not to feel sorry for the poor blighters really, but c'est la guerre I suppose.
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Madbob ...
Glad you liked the pics ... But all the credit goes to our good friend Dragartist who was running the trials ... I'm just helping him post his pics
That said, I reckon you're about right with 400/500 AGL eyeball estimate ... Which is backed up by what AA62 has said above
Sorry but ... I personally never understood the 'desire' to jump out of a perfectly serviceable aeroplane ... But gladly salute those that do on behalf of HMTQ
Glad you liked the pics ... But all the credit goes to our good friend Dragartist who was running the trials ... I'm just helping him post his pics
That said, I reckon you're about right with 400/500 AGL eyeball estimate ... Which is backed up by what AA62 has said above
Sorry but ... I personally never understood the 'desire' to jump out of a perfectly serviceable aeroplane ... But gladly salute those that do on behalf of HMTQ
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ADS - I may have missed a post, but I always remember ADS stood for Aerial Delivery System and if I remember correctly, the arms were fitted with micro-switches that inhibited the ramp switch.
Snatch - This was little more than a rope (abseiling rope I think) fitted with a grapple hook that trailed behind the aircraft. Height and speed and steady flying were the secret otherwise the hook would flail and strike the ground resulting in the hook breaking free and the rope recoiling and striking the aircraft. The hook used to trail abut 35ft below the a/c. The rope was then wound in by the AD troops and jammed in a series of cleats until another could be secured and finally winch in the rope attached to the package, all while the aircraft was kept fairly steady and slow.
My first ever drop on STS was a jungle line and it snapped resulting in a MALDROP report being raised.
Snatch - This was little more than a rope (abseiling rope I think) fitted with a grapple hook that trailed behind the aircraft. Height and speed and steady flying were the secret otherwise the hook would flail and strike the ground resulting in the hook breaking free and the rope recoiling and striking the aircraft. The hook used to trail abut 35ft below the a/c. The rope was then wound in by the AD troops and jammed in a series of cleats until another could be secured and finally winch in the rope attached to the package, all while the aircraft was kept fairly steady and slow.
My first ever drop on STS was a jungle line and it snapped resulting in a MALDROP report being raised.
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There was a GPMG 'fit' for the Beverley also firing out of a para door. Unfortunately with the enormous sponson and fixed undercarriage just forward of the door the field of fire was very limited and it was always more likely that one would do far more damage to one's own aircraft than to any enemy, whether on the ground or in the air.
WASALOADIE,
ADS did indeed stand for Aerial Delivery System, although I have seen variations on that theme in different publications. As I recall the ADS arms had but a single micro switch which cut off the power to the ramp switch when the arms were fully extended but only when they were connected to the ramp.
Of course manual operation was rather different . Jungle line drops with the extended riser could be hit or miss at times. I wonder if we are acquainted.
ADS did indeed stand for Aerial Delivery System, although I have seen variations on that theme in different publications. As I recall the ADS arms had but a single micro switch which cut off the power to the ramp switch when the arms were fully extended but only when they were connected to the ramp.
Of course manual operation was rather different . Jungle line drops with the extended riser could be hit or miss at times. I wonder if we are acquainted.
With regard to my previous post about "fighter affil" I should explain the GPMG. Suffice to say that a month or so before the bombing phase of GW1, a 47SF team was busy trying to get air troop re qualified for HALO ops. Having been deployed for the month, and SF being SF, any spare time was eagerly filled in with " other stuff". We worked out of Abu Dhabi, and our "skipper" had managed to make contact with an RAF Sqd Ldr on exchange with the local militia. Now, from memory, we had several fighter affil sessions with the said Sqd Ldr, and he bested us every time, to the extent he posted a gunsight photograph of me in the RH para door, under my hotel room door one morning ( when I find it I will post it). My memory suggests he was flying a Macchi 399, but I wouldn't bet on it, he beat us every time, and that annoyed our skipper. So, we put a GPMG on the ramp, properly secured, and not loaded. And headed off on yet another fighter affil, this time our exchange Sqdn Ldr was flying a Hawk. For 20 minutes or so, it took its usual course of Fox this and Fox that, lots of G and unusual attitudes (not least among the crew) and eventually he decided to go for the 6 o clock (up your chuff) shot. As the bank went on, we knew where he was, my fellow GE in the LH door gave a running commentary, his proximity to the Ramp controls made the whole thing quite efficient. At around 200 yards behind us, our ramp lowered and pointing straight in his face was a GPMP, with our Loadmaster "ready for action" (his first time on the detachment)
now, our attacker told us in the party room later that he pulled around 7G to avoid the "threat", but our skipper had called "Fox something" ? Before he made his break. I rather suspect that had it been a real fighter, with real missiles that the joke would have been on us. It was a great experience though. Now, there's a sad end to this tale. The Sqd Ldr exchange pilot became a regular member of our party room during the month long detachment, and sadly received a call informing him that his father was in terminal decline. As we were departing the next day, we actually offered him the quickest return to UK, with a VC10 hook up at Akrotiri, and took pride in delivering him on time. The man, despite his putting me in his sight, remains a hero to me to this day.
On the subject of "fighter affil", I rather suspect that one on one was good sport for our pilots, I also rather expect that most would also accept that a two fighter on one Albert was curtains. Our usual tactic was something like 50 flap and max turn rate, wait till the fighter ran out of fuel. With two of the buggers, one could sit upstairs and drop a sidewinder on you, with no probs. I could well be wrong, I was only an AGE after all. Apologies for the long post.
Smudge
now, our attacker told us in the party room later that he pulled around 7G to avoid the "threat", but our skipper had called "Fox something" ? Before he made his break. I rather suspect that had it been a real fighter, with real missiles that the joke would have been on us. It was a great experience though. Now, there's a sad end to this tale. The Sqd Ldr exchange pilot became a regular member of our party room during the month long detachment, and sadly received a call informing him that his father was in terminal decline. As we were departing the next day, we actually offered him the quickest return to UK, with a VC10 hook up at Akrotiri, and took pride in delivering him on time. The man, despite his putting me in his sight, remains a hero to me to this day. On the subject of "fighter affil", I rather suspect that one on one was good sport for our pilots, I also rather expect that most would also accept that a two fighter on one Albert was curtains. Our usual tactic was something like 50 flap and max turn rate, wait till the fighter ran out of fuel. With two of the buggers, one could sit upstairs and drop a sidewinder on you, with no probs. I could well be wrong, I was only an AGE after all. Apologies for the long post.
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That said, I reckon you're about right with 400/500 AGL eyeball estimate ...
Lac Ganguise, S. France, LLP operational trial, operating out of Francazal near Toulouse
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Thanks Brian ...
Many congratulations to you both
I'll post the map tomorrow morning if I may when I fire up the Mac ... iPad is a bit fiddly ... Many thanks
Coff.
Many congratulations to you both
I'll post the map tomorrow morning if I may when I fire up the Mac ... iPad is a bit fiddly ... Many thanks
Coff.
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Smudge ...
Great story ... but you've just got to find that gunsight pic
TT ...
Where you involved with the trials ?
Coff.
PS. Brian's map up next with AA62's pic
Great story ... but you've just got to find that gunsight pic
TT ...
Where you involved with the trials ?
Coff.
PS. Brian's map up next with AA62's pic
TT,
thanks fr the para height update. As I suggested in my post things have certainly moved on since I left. How do they cope with their personal weapons containers or whatever they are called these days ?
thanks fr the para height update. As I suggested in my post things have certainly moved on since I left. How do they cope with their personal weapons containers or whatever they are called these days ?
I had hoped that someone with more knowledge of the golfer story would post. So I will try to remember it as it was told to me all those years ago. The captain was Chris K. (top bloke) who had been a brand new copilot when we first got the Herc on 47 Sqn.
They had been on one of the regular airdrop dets to Macrihanish and were now packing up to come home. The usual chaos ensued with people swapping frames etc. The ALM questions one of the pax who does not seem to quite 'fit'. He says he is a pal of the captain. Once airborne the ALM asks the captain if he would like his pal on the flight deck. 'What pal ? ' was the reply !
Turned out this chap was a civvy golfer who had seen the a/c come and go whilst airdropping. He rather fancied a flight so climbed on not realising they were going back to Lyneham and not landing back at Macrihanish ! I think he was also an enthusiastic amateur whisky tester. I have forgotten the outcome but I think Chris K went to Cathay when his short service comission was up.
Airdrop tale next.
They had been on one of the regular airdrop dets to Macrihanish and were now packing up to come home. The usual chaos ensued with people swapping frames etc. The ALM questions one of the pax who does not seem to quite 'fit'. He says he is a pal of the captain. Once airborne the ALM asks the captain if he would like his pal on the flight deck. 'What pal ? ' was the reply !
Turned out this chap was a civvy golfer who had seen the a/c come and go whilst airdropping. He rather fancied a flight so climbed on not realising they were going back to Lyneham and not landing back at Macrihanish ! I think he was also an enthusiastic amateur whisky tester. I have forgotten the outcome but I think Chris K went to Cathay when his short service comission was up.
Airdrop tale next.
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Good morning all ...
OK ... This could be interesting and a bit of fun ... I hope you don't mind Brian
A new game "Where's Albert" ... a sort of a cross between "Spot The Ball" and "Where's Wally" type competition.
Now that we have Brian's map (dated 68/69) and AA62's pic (as yet undated). Remembering both guys were on different missions ... Brian is claiming that AA62's pic is showing the Island of P Stindan. But I'd like to suggest that perhaps the Island in AA62's pic is a little further north up the coast near Kpg T Sari (where there is another headland promontory and an island in a bay) and the other Island in the distant mist possibly being Paluau Sri Buat.
My reasoning ... the topography of the Island in AA62's pic appears more sympathetic albeit a direct track to the DZ from there would have taken Albert closer to high ground (770' BT Tanafi Abang).
Just a bit of fun ... what do others think
Best ...
Coff.
OK ... This could be interesting and a bit of fun ... I hope you don't mind Brian
A new game "Where's Albert" ... a sort of a cross between "Spot The Ball" and "Where's Wally" type competition.
Now that we have Brian's map (dated 68/69) and AA62's pic (as yet undated). Remembering both guys were on different missions ... Brian is claiming that AA62's pic is showing the Island of P Stindan. But I'd like to suggest that perhaps the Island in AA62's pic is a little further north up the coast near Kpg T Sari (where there is another headland promontory and an island in a bay) and the other Island in the distant mist possibly being Paluau Sri Buat.
My reasoning ... the topography of the Island in AA62's pic appears more sympathetic albeit a direct track to the DZ from there would have taken Albert closer to high ground (770' BT Tanafi Abang).
Just a bit of fun ... what do others think
Best ...
Coff.
Coffman,
my pic is from 1970/1, and I am sure we were using the same routes to the same DZ's. But as for where on that LL route we are I know not as we were rather busy 'down the back' before the ramp and door was opened.
my pic is from 1970/1, and I am sure we were using the same routes to the same DZ's. But as for where on that LL route we are I know not as we were rather busy 'down the back' before the ramp and door was opened.
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AA62 ...
I thought that would be the case ... It's just that Island in the distant mist, to the right in your pic, that got me going ... I expect someone with Hyperperspective Vision will come along and either agree or shoot me down ... Just a bit of fun anyway
I thought that would be the case ... It's just that Island in the distant mist, to the right in your pic, that got me going ... I expect someone with Hyperperspective Vision will come along and either agree or shoot me down ... Just a bit of fun anyway
nimbev,
it is only now that I realise that I had not taken enough photos. Nor even taken better care of those I did take.
it is only now that I realise that I had not taken enough photos. Nor even taken better care of those I did take.