Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
Mal and Coff,
Smashing pics which are full of memories, do either if you know a PO Nav first name Simon ? I could give you a story there.
November 4,
That's interesting, my log records all Banners originating at Lyneham, often with pick ups from Leeds Bradford etc. the Ferdy's seem to all originate in a load from Germany to Aldergrove, often returning to Lyneham via the likes of Leeds etc. perhaps I'm getting a bit long in the tooth now. Thanks for that though, because my recollection was that if we were bringing anything out of Aldergrove, it usually walked on to the aircraft.
Smudge
Smashing pics which are full of memories, do either if you know a PO Nav first name Simon ? I could give you a story there.
November 4,
That's interesting, my log records all Banners originating at Lyneham, often with pick ups from Leeds Bradford etc. the Ferdy's seem to all originate in a load from Germany to Aldergrove, often returning to Lyneham via the likes of Leeds etc. perhaps I'm getting a bit long in the tooth now. Thanks for that though, because my recollection was that if we were bringing anything out of Aldergrove, it usually walked on to the aircraft.
Smudge
November 4,
Thanks for that, it reinforces my next argument with my walking pal. Meanwhile, Mrs Smudge has just emerged from the loft with this, it was taken on return from Kuwait to Bahrain (XV297) on the date shown on the photograph. I believe the original intent for the thought bubble above Garfield was "Life's a Beach". We had come out through the oil fires and it was important to get the tar off the windscreens quickly;
Interestingly, our crew had an hour on the ground in Kuwait, delivering an Armoured Rolls Royce for the embassy, because MAMS roller conveyor was broken, again, and we got rained on by the same oil clouds. Our Flight Engineer had had a very bad experience with helicopters in the Falklands (Bob, if you know him) might give you an understanding of the paranoia he had of flying in cloud near them. Our approach in to Kuwait was done using a US tactical ILS system, through the oil fire smoke. On headset, with US helicopters calling from all over the airspace he was convinced we were going to bump in to one. We didn't, and the photograph proves it. The GE t shirt I wore that day is still in my possession, and still has the black spots of oil, that Mrs Smudge failed to wash out. Anyone remember the "£yneham GE$" T shirt logo ?
Here's one I just scanned;
Obviously designed to "wind up" both the line lads and ladies, and our aircrew comrades. Note its definitely a K. I was once informed that there were an equivalent constituted crew make up at Lyneham of 120 crews. When I was a GE we had 32 GEs, a ratio of around 4:1. I had several occasions to leave a well known bar in Gander, only to arrive back there the next night with a different crew. A busy time, only interrupted by the long detachments to the Gulf. Over a six year period from my logs I averaged 276 days a year "down route". It was surely the most interesting period of my service, and will always remain so. I'm sure a few of you will remember the T shirt though.
Smudge
Thanks for that, it reinforces my next argument with my walking pal. Meanwhile, Mrs Smudge has just emerged from the loft with this, it was taken on return from Kuwait to Bahrain (XV297) on the date shown on the photograph. I believe the original intent for the thought bubble above Garfield was "Life's a Beach". We had come out through the oil fires and it was important to get the tar off the windscreens quickly;
Interestingly, our crew had an hour on the ground in Kuwait, delivering an Armoured Rolls Royce for the embassy, because MAMS roller conveyor was broken, again, and we got rained on by the same oil clouds. Our Flight Engineer had had a very bad experience with helicopters in the Falklands (Bob, if you know him) might give you an understanding of the paranoia he had of flying in cloud near them. Our approach in to Kuwait was done using a US tactical ILS system, through the oil fire smoke. On headset, with US helicopters calling from all over the airspace he was convinced we were going to bump in to one. We didn't, and the photograph proves it. The GE t shirt I wore that day is still in my possession, and still has the black spots of oil, that Mrs Smudge failed to wash out. Anyone remember the "£yneham GE$" T shirt logo ?
Here's one I just scanned;
Obviously designed to "wind up" both the line lads and ladies, and our aircrew comrades. Note its definitely a K. I was once informed that there were an equivalent constituted crew make up at Lyneham of 120 crews. When I was a GE we had 32 GEs, a ratio of around 4:1. I had several occasions to leave a well known bar in Gander, only to arrive back there the next night with a different crew. A busy time, only interrupted by the long detachments to the Gulf. Over a six year period from my logs I averaged 276 days a year "down route". It was surely the most interesting period of my service, and will always remain so. I'm sure a few of you will remember the T shirt though.
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 21st Jun 2014 at 08:21.
Op Ferdy
Perhaps I can help as I was Sqn Ldr Ops at Upavon when the Op Ferdy flights started in either 1987 or 88. Before then all trooping flights in and out of NI went under the heading of Banner whether to Germany or UK stations. Then a military bus travelling between NW of the Province and Aldergrove was bombed.
I went over to NI to do a recce of Ballykelly for which the kind folks of 78(?) Sqn lent me a Wessex and driver - also letting me prove yet again that I can hover but the World around me cannot. After that visit we wrote the Op Order at Upavon, including the Approach Procedures for let downs remaining at all times over the Lough with then minimum time over land for the final circling approach - these were definitely not CAA standard and would not have gained BEagle's approval. The Op Order gained the name Ferdy. When they started they happened to be for Germany based regiments (remember back then there were a lot of regiments in Germany) but also allowed the carriage of women and children (for which Beverley seats were fitted) because of the (lack of) security situation on the roads. Ferdy was the Hercules use of Ballykelly rather than specific to the other destinations.
The terms Banner A and Banner B were really an unofficial shorthand, which developed later, used by Ops both at Lyneham and Upavon to describe the flights.
The original reason for the Bs was the security situation but they were much more convenient for the Army who, of course, decreed what the security situation was.
I went over to NI to do a recce of Ballykelly for which the kind folks of 78(?) Sqn lent me a Wessex and driver - also letting me prove yet again that I can hover but the World around me cannot. After that visit we wrote the Op Order at Upavon, including the Approach Procedures for let downs remaining at all times over the Lough with then minimum time over land for the final circling approach - these were definitely not CAA standard and would not have gained BEagle's approval. The Op Order gained the name Ferdy. When they started they happened to be for Germany based regiments (remember back then there were a lot of regiments in Germany) but also allowed the carriage of women and children (for which Beverley seats were fitted) because of the (lack of) security situation on the roads. Ferdy was the Hercules use of Ballykelly rather than specific to the other destinations.
The terms Banner A and Banner B were really an unofficial shorthand, which developed later, used by Ops both at Lyneham and Upavon to describe the flights.
The original reason for the Bs was the security situation but they were much more convenient for the Army who, of course, decreed what the security situation was.
Last edited by Xercules; 20th Jun 2014 at 21:43. Reason: Accuracy
I have fond memories of driving north out of Aldergrove to open up BK for the flights and trying to make sure that the regiment in residence (and inhabitants of the 'funny farm') weren't going to play silly games on the concrete when 'great metal bird come from sky'. At one stage MT gave us an unmarked LandCruiser with an artificial horizon on the dash - not a wise move when aircrew would be driving it...
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Op FERDY was what was colloquially known at Lyneham as the Banner B (ie the Ballykelly runs).
Op BANNER (colloquially known as the Banner A) were the Aldergrove runs.
The Op FERDYs had a particularly 'odd' triangular TACAN let down procedure for when the weather was bad (it certainly did NOT meet APATCE 1 let alone PANSOPS!).
As an aside, I was the Co (along with P... O.... [Obi Wan]) on the crew with the shortest ever groundstop at Ballykelly.
Wheels on to wheels off (with a runway change - we landed on the short, got airborne off the long), 70 odd PAX offloaded, (well) less than 5 minutes on the ground. As operating pilot outbound I was rolling with the 'DOOR OPEN' light still illuminated!
That particular day (Sunday) we pissed off the Staish at Wattisham (but that's another story...)
Op BANNER (colloquially known as the Banner A) were the Aldergrove runs.
The Op FERDYs had a particularly 'odd' triangular TACAN let down procedure for when the weather was bad (it certainly did NOT meet APATCE 1 let alone PANSOPS!).
As an aside, I was the Co (along with P... O.... [Obi Wan]) on the crew with the shortest ever groundstop at Ballykelly.
Wheels on to wheels off (with a runway change - we landed on the short, got airborne off the long), 70 odd PAX offloaded, (well) less than 5 minutes on the ground. As operating pilot outbound I was rolling with the 'DOOR OPEN' light still illuminated!
That particular day (Sunday) we pissed off the Staish at Wattisham (but that's another story...)
Strangest trip I ever did during the Banner/Ferdy series was to go to Aldegrove at night on a callout and pick up a man, woman and a child. Plus their two suitcases. We took them to Northolt.
It was during the supergrass era.
It was during the supergrass era.
I have a memory of only two places where we were cleared for a three engined ferry without referring back to HQ. One was Salalah and the other Aldegrove.
Both during the time of their respective 'troubles'. Is my memory playing tricks ?
Both during the time of their respective 'troubles'. Is my memory playing tricks ?
One of the many trips we did on a regular basis was a schedule to RAF Kai Tak in Hong Kong. As upgently has already posted sometimes we flagged Tan Son Nhut (Saigon) to take in embassy supplies and sometimes a passenger. It was a very busy place as the Vietnam War was in full swing. Just listening to the radios was jaw dropping.
This pic is us following a 'follow me' following a USAF Herc. A 'follow me' was essential as it was very easy to end up in the sin bin.
3engine ferries
AA62 - rest assured your memory is good. There were only 2 standing clearances for 3 engine ferries and they were Salalah and Aldergrove. Later though you can add Ballykelly to that although the likelihood would have been fairly remote, as ExA shows, you were not expected to shut down there.
Talking of Obi Wan, hasn't he done well for himself? I like to think I taught him all he knows at several stages in his career, but we all have our delusions.
Talking of Obi Wan, hasn't he done well for himself? I like to think I taught him all he knows at several stages in his career, but we all have our delusions.
Xercules,
many thanks for the reassurance that my remaining memory cell still functions now and then. I recall that in the early days of the 'Banners' into Aldegrove we did not shut down when offloading. This gave the Customs man a problem when we arrived from Germany ! I have a 'you could not make it up' tale of a three engine saga if anyone is interested (tale only).
many thanks for the reassurance that my remaining memory cell still functions now and then. I recall that in the early days of the 'Banners' into Aldegrove we did not shut down when offloading. This gave the Customs man a problem when we arrived from Germany ! I have a 'you could not make it up' tale of a three engine saga if anyone is interested (tale only).
Smudge,
your tee shirt pic encouraged me to find one of mine. A bit faded !
I used to have a collection of Hercules tee shirts but my grandson took a shine to them, as they do.
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AA62 ...
I'm up for it ... sitting comfortably
I have a 'you could not make it up' tale of a three engine saga if anyone is interested (tale only).
Not a tee shirt but a tea towel ! Surely a real collectors item. Bought for my mother in law who collected (but never used) unusual tea towels. Came to us when she died last year aged 105. We had forgotten it existed.
Three engine ferry tale tomorrow when I find the entry in my log book.
AA62,
The tea towel is a classic. I have, I expect in the loft, to which Mrs Smudge must now be elevated, a stuffed Albert that I won at a £yneham Families Day. I'm sure when I can get her back up the ladder she will find it. Can't wait for the 3 engined transit tomorrow. As an aside, Someone once told me that the Tristar was operated illegally for a couple of years as command operational orders prohibited 3 engined take off by transport aircraft.
Smudge
The tea towel is a classic. I have, I expect in the loft, to which Mrs Smudge must now be elevated, a stuffed Albert that I won at a £yneham Families Day. I'm sure when I can get her back up the ladder she will find it. Can't wait for the 3 engined transit tomorrow. As an aside, Someone once told me that the Tristar was operated illegally for a couple of years as command operational orders prohibited 3 engined take off by transport aircraft.
Smudge
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I have a memory of only two places where we were cleared for a three engined ferry without referring back to HQ. One was Salalah and the other Aldegrove.
Both during the time of their respective 'troubles'. Is my memory playing tricks ?
Both during the time of their respective 'troubles'. Is my memory playing tricks ?
We used to do a demo one on the OCU with one at flight idle if memory serves I think. That or PRT, can't remember
Last edited by Dengue_Dude; 21st Jun 2014 at 19:58. Reason: Afterthought