Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
Argosy v C-130? I could probably claim that the C-141 outdid both by a margin, but of course the RAF never had any so we can agree that doesn't count here!
So, my original question about how 70 Squadron operated its dual fleet at Akrotiri in the 70s, has developed into a comparison of types, and still no answers forthcoming on how they operated the two types. I will take a guess that as keeping current on both types would be exceedingly difficult, the squadron basically operated as two individual flights, each operating separate types. Now lads, back to your comparison, looks like the Starlifters is about to enter the fray, good luck. I still believe that Gopher01 worked on Wapiti's.
Smudge
Smudge
smudge,
IMHO think we should stick to comparisons of transport a/c the RAF did have in service otherwise we may stray so far off track 'that even God can't find us' (from Paint Your Wagon !)
IMHO think we should stick to comparisons of transport a/c the RAF did have in service otherwise we may stray so far off track 'that even God can't find us' (from Paint Your Wagon !)
AA62,
I couldn't have put it better. Did no contributor here fly with Love and Kisses back in the 70s ? As Fergineer says, It would have been a nightmare operating both types. I have a mate who worked on the Groundcrew on 70 during that period, and, can't for the life of me remember if he worked Argosy, C130 or both. I haven't seen him for years but will try to send him a message to see if he was "bi" or not, although, I doubt it would be such a problem for the Groundcrew.
Smudge
I couldn't have put it better. Did no contributor here fly with Love and Kisses back in the 70s ? As Fergineer says, It would have been a nightmare operating both types. I have a mate who worked on the Groundcrew on 70 during that period, and, can't for the life of me remember if he worked Argosy, C130 or both. I haven't seen him for years but will try to send him a message to see if he was "bi" or not, although, I doubt it would be such a problem for the Groundcrew.
Smudge
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No problem for us multi tasking groundcrew, if flying was that difficult the groundcrew would have done it (as I did after leaving the employ of Aunt Bet !)
I had been flying privately whilst in the RAF so the transistion was quite easy as well as holding UK CAA maintenance licenses , this was when I was doing my bit at Lyneham, rgds, PH.
I had been flying privately whilst in the RAF so the transistion was quite easy as well as holding UK CAA maintenance licenses , this was when I was doing my bit at Lyneham, rgds, PH.
smuj
I don't think it was unusual for a squadron to operate more than one type, particularly the old comm' squadrons/flights.
Far East Comm' at Changi had the Hastings and Andover ( the latter being like the civil 748 i.e. no ramp ), but I doubt the aircrew flew both.
The RAFG comm sqn, later 60 Sqn, had IIRC Devons and Pembrokes which were more likely to have had crews that flew both - a mate of mine on 48 did a stint on 60 I'll check to see if he flew both.
Back in the heady days of the 40s and 50s I think all sorts of types were used as squadron hacks.
Afterthought - of course aircrew posted to Boscombe etc, even though not TPs, flew lots of types i.e. a nav' could have been current on the Comet, Brit, Devon etc. I believe.
Far East Comm' at Changi had the Hastings and Andover ( the latter being like the civil 748 i.e. no ramp ), but I doubt the aircrew flew both.
The RAFG comm sqn, later 60 Sqn, had IIRC Devons and Pembrokes which were more likely to have had crews that flew both - a mate of mine on 48 did a stint on 60 I'll check to see if he flew both.
Back in the heady days of the 40s and 50s I think all sorts of types were used as squadron hacks.
Afterthought - of course aircrew posted to Boscombe etc, even though not TPs, flew lots of types i.e. a nav' could have been current on the Comet, Brit, Devon etc. I believe.
Last edited by Brian 48nav; 24th Mar 2015 at 09:53. Reason: addition
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Was on 60 at Wildenrath late 1960`s had Pembrokes, Devon, Heron, Basset and 748, plus us groundcrew as well as the above looked after visiting Nato & every one elses aircraft as they visited and staged through, when we had a real Air Force !, rgds, PH.
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Boscombe
As a nav at Boscombe in the 90s, I was current on Nimrod mr2, Nimrod R,Comet mk4, PA31, Andover, C130, VC10 and Sentry. Happy Days!
Last edited by middlesbrough; 24th Mar 2015 at 11:49. Reason: missed out Comet
Actually the only choice to replace the 'sleeve valve' fleet was between the C 130 and the C160 which brings me neatly to my next tale. If anyone out there was involved I welcome corrections, as always.
Anyone still awake at the back may remember my earlier post describing a trip round Thailand which fitted my definition of a 'jolly'. Well here is another one much closer to home.
So make yoursevles comfortable(!) on a para seat mes amis and I will begin.
I was in my office on 30 Sqn catching up on the endless paperwork when one of the Flt Cdrs from 24 Sqn (This was our sister squadron at Lyneham sharing the same building.) He was Mike E. who I knew from 48 at Changi when he was a F/O and I was a F/S. 'How would you like a long weekend in France' was his greeting ? Now the epithet 'beware the Greeks bearing gifts' has much going for it, but Mike was such a nice chap and totally straight that not a flcker of suspicion entered my mind. So I took him off to the crewroom for a coffee where all was explained.
An Armee de L'Air transport squadron at Bricy (Orleans) was due to celebrate the 50th anniversary of its formation and the RAF amongst others had been invited to send an a/c. Now how the 'system' agreed to this is a bit hazy but the captain on this trip was to be from 47 Sqn and he had been on the course at the French Test Pilot's School. He never finished the course due to a lady exercising the 'priorite' from the right knocking him off his moped. The fact that she hit him from behind cut no ice with this madam. So somewhere contacts had been made and we were invited.
We were to be an all officer crew and I cannot remember who the Co or Air Eng were or even if we had a G/E, omissions I blame on the weekend itself !
We had to take our Number 1 and Mess Kit.
The French squadron (cannot remeber the number) had very recently reroled with the C130H after years of France denying they needed any and that the C160 could do it all. At the initail beer call I 'understood' that the costs of this purchase had been buried in the office furniture estimates! This 'understanding' of course has nothing to do with the hospitality on offer.
I shall have to pause there as our grandson has arrived and this tale is taking far longer than I expected. Apologies.
Anyone still awake at the back may remember my earlier post describing a trip round Thailand which fitted my definition of a 'jolly'. Well here is another one much closer to home.
So make yoursevles comfortable(!) on a para seat mes amis and I will begin.
I was in my office on 30 Sqn catching up on the endless paperwork when one of the Flt Cdrs from 24 Sqn (This was our sister squadron at Lyneham sharing the same building.) He was Mike E. who I knew from 48 at Changi when he was a F/O and I was a F/S. 'How would you like a long weekend in France' was his greeting ? Now the epithet 'beware the Greeks bearing gifts' has much going for it, but Mike was such a nice chap and totally straight that not a flcker of suspicion entered my mind. So I took him off to the crewroom for a coffee where all was explained.
An Armee de L'Air transport squadron at Bricy (Orleans) was due to celebrate the 50th anniversary of its formation and the RAF amongst others had been invited to send an a/c. Now how the 'system' agreed to this is a bit hazy but the captain on this trip was to be from 47 Sqn and he had been on the course at the French Test Pilot's School. He never finished the course due to a lady exercising the 'priorite' from the right knocking him off his moped. The fact that she hit him from behind cut no ice with this madam. So somewhere contacts had been made and we were invited.
We were to be an all officer crew and I cannot remember who the Co or Air Eng were or even if we had a G/E, omissions I blame on the weekend itself !
We had to take our Number 1 and Mess Kit.
The French squadron (cannot remeber the number) had very recently reroled with the C130H after years of France denying they needed any and that the C160 could do it all. At the initail beer call I 'understood' that the costs of this purchase had been buried in the office furniture estimates! This 'understanding' of course has nothing to do with the hospitality on offer.
I shall have to pause there as our grandson has arrived and this tale is taking far longer than I expected. Apologies.
There you go AA62, got us all dangling. Zetec, Middlesborough, Dougie etc, thanks for the input on multi type squadrons. I'm still curious how 70 operated, but have hopes of an answer soon. Now, AA62, get on with it young man.
Smudge
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No problem for us multi tasking groundcrew, if flying was that difficult the groundcrew would have done it (as I did after leaving the employ of Aunt Bet !)
I had been flying privately whilst in the RAF so the transistion was quite easy as well as holding UK CAA maintenance licenses , this was when I was doing my bit at Lyneham, rgds, PH.
I had been flying privately whilst in the RAF so the transistion was quite easy as well as holding UK CAA maintenance licenses , this was when I was doing my bit at Lyneham, rgds, PH.
Jaguar engineers were supposed to be cross trained on Star Fighter maintenance in case of war, though I never saw one some were cross trained before I arrived.
Currently my CAA and EASA licences cover me on hundreds of types and engines and combinations of thereof.
Brian 48 Nav,
When you communicate with Arthur, give him my regards and ask him if he remembers me.
Nutty
Like you, I too have worked on multi aircraft engineering units. It's one thing to maintain different types, but to fly, and maintain currency on multiple types must be hard work, and perhaps we should respect those that did it.
Smudge
When you communicate with Arthur, give him my regards and ask him if he remembers me.
Nutty
Like you, I too have worked on multi aircraft engineering units. It's one thing to maintain different types, but to fly, and maintain currency on multiple types must be hard work, and perhaps we should respect those that did it.
Smudge
Coff,
I did help my grandson with the Mass (weight in my day !) and Balance portion of his ATPL studies and also with the 'electrickery' and some other bits. He passed first time so I claim the credit ! (Success has many parents, failure is an orphan. ANON)
Back to the story.
One thing puzzled me as to when the Sqn in question was formed and where. No doubt someone may know the amswer.
According to my log book we left on 3 June 1993 and returned on the 5 June.
This does not quite tie up with my memory of the trip, for I am convinced we left on the Friday and came home on the Monday. Not uncommon for the occaisional glitch in the clerking. Or perhaps my unfaithful friend may be up to the usual tricks.
We wanted to take one of the tankers as it would be something very different but this was vetoed so we had to take what we were given.
On the day of departure the Eng and I rolled up at the line to see what we had been allocated.
It was XV 291, 'rentawreck's ugly brother. The list of deferred defects would have consumed a toilet roll. It had just enough hours on the extension to the extension for the round trip and then to get it to Marshalls for the makeover. It was filthy inside and out and smelled of damp.
However it was an unspoken amongst the crew that the PNR would be at VR and short of a fire we were going !
In the event 291 behaved itself and we arrived at Bricy in good order. We were put into a slot ready for the next day's static, with several other nations already in position. We were whisked off for a wet lunch and then to the squadron where the celebrations were well under way. After a 'few' beers we were transported to our Hotel in Orleans for a rest before donning our Number 1 being picked up and taken to have a champagne reception with the Mayor.
Next day it was up to the airfield to man our a/c for the static. I had a good look around the new French 'H' model and noticed it had gaseous oxygen bottles (in the crew 'wardrobe' ) instead of LOX.
After a wet lunch we watched an impressive display by the C160 which did a version of ULLA and TAC landings.
Back in the hotel we had just time for a tactical kip before donning our mess kit and travelling back to the airfield for the Gala dinner. This was held in a hangar emptied of a/c and we acessed it via the side loading door of a C160 emerging down the carpeted ramp into the hangar where a glass of champagne awaited us.
Dinner was a protracted affair but eventually it finished and we went back to the hotel in the early hours of the morning.
Dressed once more in our number 1 uniform we were taken to the cathedral in the morning for a service of blessing. It was very impressive especially as all the historic banners and flags were on display. After the service some of the squadron personnel took us on a pub crawl until we cried enough and went back to the hotel for quiet final evening.
Next day 291 delivered us back to Lyneham with as little fuss as she had shown on the O/B leg.
What struck me then as it does now is how the local community embraced the celebrations of what was 'merely' a 50th anniversary of a local transport squadron. I cannot remember anything quite like this happening in my time in the RAF. I would love to be contadicted !
Anyone else have stories that meet the definition of a 'jolly' ?
I did help my grandson with the Mass (weight in my day !) and Balance portion of his ATPL studies and also with the 'electrickery' and some other bits. He passed first time so I claim the credit ! (Success has many parents, failure is an orphan. ANON)
Back to the story.
One thing puzzled me as to when the Sqn in question was formed and where. No doubt someone may know the amswer.
According to my log book we left on 3 June 1993 and returned on the 5 June.
This does not quite tie up with my memory of the trip, for I am convinced we left on the Friday and came home on the Monday. Not uncommon for the occaisional glitch in the clerking. Or perhaps my unfaithful friend may be up to the usual tricks.
We wanted to take one of the tankers as it would be something very different but this was vetoed so we had to take what we were given.
On the day of departure the Eng and I rolled up at the line to see what we had been allocated.
It was XV 291, 'rentawreck's ugly brother. The list of deferred defects would have consumed a toilet roll. It had just enough hours on the extension to the extension for the round trip and then to get it to Marshalls for the makeover. It was filthy inside and out and smelled of damp.
However it was an unspoken amongst the crew that the PNR would be at VR and short of a fire we were going !
In the event 291 behaved itself and we arrived at Bricy in good order. We were put into a slot ready for the next day's static, with several other nations already in position. We were whisked off for a wet lunch and then to the squadron where the celebrations were well under way. After a 'few' beers we were transported to our Hotel in Orleans for a rest before donning our Number 1 being picked up and taken to have a champagne reception with the Mayor.
Next day it was up to the airfield to man our a/c for the static. I had a good look around the new French 'H' model and noticed it had gaseous oxygen bottles (in the crew 'wardrobe' ) instead of LOX.
After a wet lunch we watched an impressive display by the C160 which did a version of ULLA and TAC landings.
Back in the hotel we had just time for a tactical kip before donning our mess kit and travelling back to the airfield for the Gala dinner. This was held in a hangar emptied of a/c and we acessed it via the side loading door of a C160 emerging down the carpeted ramp into the hangar where a glass of champagne awaited us.
Dinner was a protracted affair but eventually it finished and we went back to the hotel in the early hours of the morning.
Dressed once more in our number 1 uniform we were taken to the cathedral in the morning for a service of blessing. It was very impressive especially as all the historic banners and flags were on display. After the service some of the squadron personnel took us on a pub crawl until we cried enough and went back to the hotel for quiet final evening.
Next day 291 delivered us back to Lyneham with as little fuss as she had shown on the O/B leg.
What struck me then as it does now is how the local community embraced the celebrations of what was 'merely' a 50th anniversary of a local transport squadron. I cannot remember anything quite like this happening in my time in the RAF. I would love to be contadicted !
Anyone else have stories that meet the definition of a 'jolly' ?
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Great story AA62 
... afraid I couldn't track down the French Herc Squadron for you 
Mainly because my French is nonexistent (even with Google Translate)
Projet de loi de finances pour 2006 : Défense - Forces aériennes
Coff.
... afraid I couldn't track down the French Herc Squadron for you Mainly because my French is nonexistent (even with Google Translate)
Projet de loi de finances pour 2006 : Défense - Forces aériennes
Coff.
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Coff, AA62, I think this may be the squadron:
Escadron de transport 2/61 Franche-Comté ? Wikipédia
The numbering system on French squadrons works on the basis of squadron/wing, so 2/61 would be the second squadron of the 61st wing.
PS, even as a non-Albert chap, I still think this is one of the best threads on here in ages.
Escadron de transport 2/61 Franche-Comté ? Wikipédia
The numbering system on French squadrons works on the basis of squadron/wing, so 2/61 would be the second squadron of the 61st wing.
PS, even as a non-Albert chap, I still think this is one of the best threads on here in ages.
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Recall several years ago being part of a 2 ship that was tasked to take part in an airfield assault at an airfield in France with 2 C160s. We met the 160 crews at Leeming for a day of rehearsals, which went surprisingly smoothly. A social evening in Bedale ensued where the French crews were introduced to Black Sheep and several other fine local ales, followed by the inevitable ASCOT curry. Several of the visitors announced they weren't fans of spicy food but allowed us to order the milder curries cooked in wine!(Vindaloos). Certainly was a picture, and i can only imagine the odours on the flight decks on the French Aircraft.