Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
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Originally Posted by CoffmanStarter
Welcome back ... Have you any stories you could share in respect of controlling either JATFOR or SKE Formations from the Air Traffic perspective
Sorry, but nothing to relate in that area. Nearly all my UK controlling involved fast jets over E Anglia, whereas JATFOR seemed to stay "west of the Ambers".
The closest I could get would be controlling the Varsity navex stream out of Oakington, and wondering how their tracks could get so widely scattered by the time they reached the Finningley area! By the time they returned home, they were a random gaggle in no particular sequence, wandering gently across Cambridgeshire ... or Rutland, or Lincolnshire, or other points east of the Ambers
Slightly off thread
The mention of the "Varsity stream" recalls a real bomb burst separation when I was a junior nav holding at Oakington. The famed 16 ship diamond formation of varsities was commanded by the slightly eccentric Von Zielac (approx.) at the centre of the display line he yelled "Verys, verys, shoot, bang, fire, NOW" the sporadic salvo of flares from the lead group landed amongst the followers and an airborne melee ensued. I was in trail somewhere and the Instructor Pilot stated that he hadn't seen any thing like it since Bremerhaven in '43.
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DC no, he left before I got there, OC1312 was initially a 24 exec (Nav) replaced by a Scottish one from 30 affectionately known as STARMAC and not because he was a great guy!
Dougie M,
I tremble when even thinking this, but, as a young lad I always enjoyed the annual B of B day at RAF Gaydon in the late 60s. As the Varsities of No 2 ANS featured heavily in the display, perhaps you may have been involved. Instructor perhaps thanks to all for the welcome back, it's been an "interesting" few weeks for Chateau Smudge, that has helped restore my faith in medics, we digress though.
The emergency radio bay, on the Left wing, just inboard of the life rafts;
I began my association with Albert on 8 March 1971, arriving on White team at RAF Colerne as a bit of a joke, no, not me, but someone at handbrake house Colerne decided that a Jnr Tech Smith, rumoured to be the son of the then team manager Flight Sgt Norman Smith, would be good for a laugh. It took me a few weeks to convince my contempories that we were not related. During my time assisting with Base 3 servicing I believe that a good proportion of the aircraft arrived from 70 squadron (then based at Akronelli). After clearing customs, it was usual to see the delivery crew attend the aircraft the next day, before we washed the frame, and "unload" the emergency radio bay. I'm sure it was basically cigarettes as a Demijohn might have suffered under high altitude flight conditions. Now, despite having served on ALSS through 87, as a GE 88 - 95 and as an AES team manager until 97, I can't for the life of me remember if the new wings included an emergency radio compartment. Can anyone enlighten my feeble brain ? And does anyone remember using the compartment for any "imports" ? After all these years, the statute of limitations must be invoked, and anyway, no names, no pack drill. As an aside, if the emergency radio bay was a good location, what about the dry bays
As a follow up, I had the pleasure of a return flight Akronelli to Malta, as I served my time with a certain Lightning Unit in the Med. The trip out, by Whistling Tit, the return by Albert. Anyone recollect the 70 mixed fleet of the 70s ? How did it work, and, were crews qualified on both types ?
Smudge
I tremble when even thinking this, but, as a young lad I always enjoyed the annual B of B day at RAF Gaydon in the late 60s. As the Varsities of No 2 ANS featured heavily in the display, perhaps you may have been involved. Instructor perhaps thanks to all for the welcome back, it's been an "interesting" few weeks for Chateau Smudge, that has helped restore my faith in medics, we digress though.
The emergency radio bay, on the Left wing, just inboard of the life rafts;
I began my association with Albert on 8 March 1971, arriving on White team at RAF Colerne as a bit of a joke, no, not me, but someone at handbrake house Colerne decided that a Jnr Tech Smith, rumoured to be the son of the then team manager Flight Sgt Norman Smith, would be good for a laugh. It took me a few weeks to convince my contempories that we were not related. During my time assisting with Base 3 servicing I believe that a good proportion of the aircraft arrived from 70 squadron (then based at Akronelli). After clearing customs, it was usual to see the delivery crew attend the aircraft the next day, before we washed the frame, and "unload" the emergency radio bay. I'm sure it was basically cigarettes as a Demijohn might have suffered under high altitude flight conditions. Now, despite having served on ALSS through 87, as a GE 88 - 95 and as an AES team manager until 97, I can't for the life of me remember if the new wings included an emergency radio compartment. Can anyone enlighten my feeble brain ? And does anyone remember using the compartment for any "imports" ? After all these years, the statute of limitations must be invoked, and anyway, no names, no pack drill. As an aside, if the emergency radio bay was a good location, what about the dry bays
As a follow up, I had the pleasure of a return flight Akronelli to Malta, as I served my time with a certain Lightning Unit in the Med. The trip out, by Whistling Tit, the return by Albert. Anyone recollect the 70 mixed fleet of the 70s ? How did it work, and, were crews qualified on both types ?
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 21st Mar 2015 at 23:51.
A little Youtube
I may have missed this previously, if so I apologise. But enjoyed the clips in this. It will go well with the full English tomorrow morning ;
http://youtu.be/aVjuw3g7jgE
Smudge
http://youtu.be/aVjuw3g7jgE
Smudge
My pleasure Brian,
In the NVG sequence, are we seeing a TALO ? Having just read, and enjoyed Exocet Falklands, the landing seems to meet the definition. definately some good stuff, accompanied by decent music. Apologies for hogging it gentlemen, it's nice to be out and about again though.
Smudge
In the NVG sequence, are we seeing a TALO ? Having just read, and enjoyed Exocet Falklands, the landing seems to meet the definition. definately some good stuff, accompanied by decent music. Apologies for hogging it gentlemen, it's nice to be out and about again though.
Smudge
smudge,
welcome 'home'. Thank you for the link to the video. Some great shots of airdrop and tanking. The ULLA sequence conveys nicely the huge forces involved as it shudders to a stop on the DZ. Explains why we never dropped vehicles using it.
welcome 'home'. Thank you for the link to the video. Some great shots of airdrop and tanking. The ULLA sequence conveys nicely the huge forces involved as it shudders to a stop on the DZ. Explains why we never dropped vehicles using it.
Smudge
Welcome back Smudge. The thread has been a little bare in your absence.
The NVG sequence above is indeed a TALO offload if a little flat in its approach.
As for Argosy Vs Herc interoperability the two systems have separate OCUs. I was on Argosies for 6 years and it was a quantum leap in experience to take off before breakfast, not flag stop in France for lunch and realise that Malta was only half a tank of gas rather than an overnight stop en route. Most ungentlemanly hours. I got to see a lot more of the world though, some of it memorably in your company.
The NVG sequence above is indeed a TALO offload if a little flat in its approach.
As for Argosy Vs Herc interoperability the two systems have separate OCUs. I was on Argosies for 6 years and it was a quantum leap in experience to take off before breakfast, not flag stop in France for lunch and realise that Malta was only half a tank of gas rather than an overnight stop en route. Most ungentlemanly hours. I got to see a lot more of the world though, some of it memorably in your company.
DougieM,
you Argosy chaps had it easy. We on the 'sleeve valve' fleets 'suffered with fortitude' ! The Hercules was a quantam leap which we should have had in service long before we did.
you Argosy chaps had it easy. We on the 'sleeve valve' fleets 'suffered with fortitude' ! The Hercules was a quantam leap which we should have had in service long before we did.
Sleeve Valves
Slightly off thread but with regard to sleeve valves does anybody have or can obtain access to the article in Air Clues that was printed shortly after the demise of the Bev entitled " Bye Bye Bev " which contained many stories about the career of the Bev, stories such as the birdstrike where the bird overtook the Bev but misjudged its cut across the front of the Bev and got hit, closing speed about 5 mph! If so I would appreciate a copy as it was the first aircraft I worked on after leaving Halton and boy did it have character.
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I remember doing the TALO workup on 47, we used Keevil after practising with the Blues and Royals at Lyneham.
I said to their RSM, since you've had a go in our Hercules, can I have a go in your tank, so next morning on the bottom of the Calne Strip, he let me drive their Spartan (like a Scimitar without a turret) up and down for half an hour (about the same time they had in our aircraft. God that was fun.
I loved doing TALO, 10 minutes flying, Lumpy Box and go home early (or previous day off).
I said to their RSM, since you've had a go in our Hercules, can I have a go in your tank, so next morning on the bottom of the Calne Strip, he let me drive their Spartan (like a Scimitar without a turret) up and down for half an hour (about the same time they had in our aircraft. God that was fun.
I loved doing TALO, 10 minutes flying, Lumpy Box and go home early (or previous day off).
Gopher 01
I seem to remember you telling me that your first aircraft after Brats was the Wapiti I think Coff has access to back issues of air clues, he may be able to help.
Dougie M
Thanks for that info re Argosy/C130. Does anyone know if the 70 Squadron crews in the 70s were qualified on both types, or if they specialised. I would imagine a large difference between the two aircraft.
Smudge
Dougie M
Thanks for that info re Argosy/C130. Does anyone know if the 70 Squadron crews in the 70s were qualified on both types, or if they specialised. I would imagine a large difference between the two aircraft.
Smudge
smudge,
never on Argosies but did my para jump from one. HUGE difference in capabilty between the C130 and the Argosy. The Herc was an original design the Argosy came from the AW parts bin. Shack wing, modified Meteor tail booms etc. This is not to decry the Argosy, way better than the sleeve valvers for most tasks, but it shows what we had to operate with before the mighty Hercules take over
never on Argosies but did my para jump from one. HUGE difference in capabilty between the C130 and the Argosy. The Herc was an original design the Argosy came from the AW parts bin. Shack wing, modified Meteor tail booms etc. This is not to decry the Argosy, way better than the sleeve valvers for most tasks, but it shows what we had to operate with before the mighty Hercules take over
AA62,
I'm sure the Bevs were a breed apart. If Gopher 01 is correct being overtaken by a bird might be a bit of an embarrassment for some of the two winged master race Meanwhile, I thought I saw a young AA62 in the Youtube sequence I posted, in amongst the Para's prepping to drop. If not, it was a lookalike.
Smudge
I'm sure the Bevs were a breed apart. If Gopher 01 is correct being overtaken by a bird might be a bit of an embarrassment for some of the two winged master race Meanwhile, I thought I saw a young AA62 in the Youtube sequence I posted, in amongst the Para's prepping to drop. If not, it was a lookalike.
Smudge
Smudge,
I think it was probably my stunt double in the para dropping video !
The Beverley was indeed a class act for it could take higher loads than the Hercules. It had a 10 ft square fuselage with no intrusions wheras the height of the Herc cargo compartment was just over 9 feet and of course it had intrusions into that space. Also on airdrop the Bev had the boom for para dropping as well as the cargo compartment for heavy drop etc.
But bottom line is the Hercules outperformed the Beverley and the Hastings in every other way.
I think it was probably my stunt double in the para dropping video !
The Beverley was indeed a class act for it could take higher loads than the Hercules. It had a 10 ft square fuselage with no intrusions wheras the height of the Herc cargo compartment was just over 9 feet and of course it had intrusions into that space. Also on airdrop the Bev had the boom for para dropping as well as the cargo compartment for heavy drop etc.
But bottom line is the Hercules outperformed the Beverley and the Hastings in every other way.