Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
The losses are as TT and Brian have flagged up. I wrote about the Tromso incident in an earlier post. I seem to recall that the Italian crash was in poor WX and the conclusion was that the a/c descended in a turn into the sea.
The captain was Graham H. who had been a Co on 47 Sqn when I was there.
We were on a Westabout at the time when we heard the sad news.
The captain was Graham H. who had been a Co on 47 Sqn when I was there.
We were on a Westabout at the time when we heard the sad news.
Last edited by ancientaviator62; 11th Mar 2015 at 08:24. Reason: spelling
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The talk when I was teaching in the sim was there had been an insidious ADI failure, but that's difficult as the flying was essentially VFR. But it was night low level as I understand it (just before my time as aircrew).
This hastened the fitment of another artificial horizon which the 'planners' managed to put on the Isol DC Busbar, thus ensuring with a RCR failure, all the attitude instruments would fail together. IIRC
This hastened the fitment of another artificial horizon which the 'planners' managed to put on the Isol DC Busbar, thus ensuring with a RCR failure, all the attitude instruments would fail together. IIRC
AA62
I could be wrong but I think the unfortunate skipper's name was Colin H.
I was in aircraft No5 with Geoff Howard and I don't recall the wx being particularly bad - little bit of mist low down, but my memory is at odds with other people who have posted on this subject before - i.e. the Andover wx ship reporting back about poor conditions.
I am still in touch with Joe O who was the nav in No4 and Chris P, the skipper in No6, and none of us can recall any involvement by Andovers.
Sadly it was a stupid idea for the first sortie of a 2 week detachment to be a 9 ship formation commencing at night. Commonsense would have dictated that the initial sorties should have been singletons, then 3 ships by day building up to a 9 ship finale at night. But then I was only a newly promoted Flt Lt, so what would I know?
I was in aircraft No5 with Geoff Howard and I don't recall the wx being particularly bad - little bit of mist low down, but my memory is at odds with other people who have posted on this subject before - i.e. the Andover wx ship reporting back about poor conditions.
I am still in touch with Joe O who was the nav in No4 and Chris P, the skipper in No6, and none of us can recall any involvement by Andovers.
Sadly it was a stupid idea for the first sortie of a 2 week detachment to be a 9 ship formation commencing at night. Commonsense would have dictated that the initial sorties should have been singletons, then 3 ships by day building up to a 9 ship finale at night. But then I was only a newly promoted Flt Lt, so what would I know?
Brian,
I think you are correct ref the name of the captain involved in the Pisa accident. It seems such a long time ago and yet I can remember where I was when we got the news. Another example of my sometimes fallible friend, memory.
I think you are correct ref the name of the captain involved in the Pisa accident. It seems such a long time ago and yet I can remember where I was when we got the news. Another example of my sometimes fallible friend, memory.
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I was on the staff at Thorney at the time, the Capt and Nav had only recently passed through the OCU (not sure about the remainder of the crew). As Brian says, questions were asked about the planning of the exercise and the wisdom of having a night stream so early on. As I recall, it was also the first time the crew had flown a night low level formation, so there were suggestions that it should be included in the OCU tactical phase, but I dont think that happened. A lot of the troops felt that someone 'higher up ' should have been held to account, and that the BOI was a bit of a whitewash. I dont know the rights and wrongs of the situation but it certainly caused a lot of ripples at the time.
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Good afternoon Gents ...
With normal 'image' service resumed from me ... I'll continue with some more interesting back copy on the C-130K ... if that's OK with everyone.
Now this article comes from AViate (2007) and although it relates to a US Herc ... apparently the same type of incident occurred twice with RAF C-130K's ... "but fortunately not quite so dramatic". Well that sounds a bit of understatement to me
I'm sure amongst our Thread readership and followers someone will be able to elucidate further
Image Credit : Aviate Flight Safety Magazine (2007) : Original Article Credit : US Navy & Marine Corps Aviation Safety Magazine.
Best ...
Coff.
With normal 'image' service resumed from me ... I'll continue with some more interesting back copy on the C-130K ... if that's OK with everyone.
Now this article comes from AViate (2007) and although it relates to a US Herc ... apparently the same type of incident occurred twice with RAF C-130K's ... "but fortunately not quite so dramatic". Well that sounds a bit of understatement to me
I'm sure amongst our Thread readership and followers someone will be able to elucidate further
Image Credit : Aviate Flight Safety Magazine (2007) : Original Article Credit : US Navy & Marine Corps Aviation Safety Magazine.
Best ...
Coff.
' ... recovered our l̶o̶a̶d̶m̶a̶s̶t̶e̶r̶ captain from under a stack of five people and plugged h̶e̶r̶ him back into the intercom.'
I'm getting flashbacks of a 47 Sqn trip.
I'm getting flashbacks of a 47 Sqn trip.
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It's interesting to think that the Hercules first entered operational service (with US forces) at almost the same time that the Beverley entered RAF service. Did we get things right, back then? If we didn't, we seem to have learned very little from the experience and spend an awful lot of money developing and sometimes introducing British equipment only to replace it with US equivalents of the same or even earlier vintage.
Coffman,
we did indeed have at least one liferaft escape from the stowage in flight but not I think with quite so dramatic consequences.
I have mentioned in an earlier post that the UK sourced liferafts in the 'K' were larger (MS26 and then MS 33 in the stretched version) than those fitted to US a/c. They were a real headache for the technicians to fit as smudge confirmed. I also recalled seeing two demos of the MS33 where the liferafts merely lay on the wing blowing like beached whales.
When our 'K' model was first stretched the MS 33 was not ready so for large pax loads we carried an MS 9 which was supposed to be launched out through the cargo compartment aft escape hatch. It was not exactly a light item but I suppose in extremis the adreniline would turbo charge the muscles !
we did indeed have at least one liferaft escape from the stowage in flight but not I think with quite so dramatic consequences.
I have mentioned in an earlier post that the UK sourced liferafts in the 'K' were larger (MS26 and then MS 33 in the stretched version) than those fitted to US a/c. They were a real headache for the technicians to fit as smudge confirmed. I also recalled seeing two demos of the MS33 where the liferafts merely lay on the wing blowing like beached whales.
When our 'K' model was first stretched the MS 33 was not ready so for large pax loads we carried an MS 9 which was supposed to be launched out through the cargo compartment aft escape hatch. It was not exactly a light item but I suppose in extremis the adreniline would turbo charge the muscles !
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Bratman91 ...
Decisions around procurement have never been easy. The simple answer I guess, is that a UK Government (of any colour shade) will want to see British Jobs benefit ... or certainly did back in the 50's/60's. After WWII the British economic and industrial recovery was very much driven by aerospace.
Hope you are enjoying the Thread
Coff.
Decisions around procurement have never been easy. The simple answer I guess, is that a UK Government (of any colour shade) will want to see British Jobs benefit ... or certainly did back in the 50's/60's. After WWII the British economic and industrial recovery was very much driven by aerospace.
Hope you are enjoying the Thread
Coff.
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Good morning AA62
All understood ... But that US incident must have been an extreme 'Brown Trouser' moment !
Mind you ... I'm wondering if our good friend Mal Drop will want to share more of his 'Flashback' ...
More from Air Clues over the weekend ...
Best ...
Coff.
All understood ... But that US incident must have been an extreme 'Brown Trouser' moment !
Mind you ... I'm wondering if our good friend Mal Drop will want to share more of his 'Flashback' ...
More from Air Clues over the weekend ...
Best ...
Coff.
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Good morning Gents ...
Well played England yesterday at Twickers ... sorry just had to get that in
Throughout this Thread we have seen how rugged and tough the Herc has been in Service. This article from Air Clues June 1986 covers the incident in the South Atlantic where 15' of the Port Wing was severed off , but still RAF Albert got home. Sadly as a result of this mid-air a Sea King Crew were lost (RIP).
I'm sure there are other instances where things have stopped working, dropped off or failed ... but RAF Albert still got it's crew home safe ... which might prompt a few more stories
Also ... Great respect for the Engineers with this particular post incident recovery
Source Credit : Crown MOD RAF Air Clues June 1986
More pics ...
Image Credit : C-130.net
Coff.
PS. I appreciate we eventually lost XV206 in 2006. Wrecked at a dirt landing strip after hitting land mine on roll-out near Lashkar Gar, Afghanistan.
Well played England yesterday at Twickers ... sorry just had to get that in
Throughout this Thread we have seen how rugged and tough the Herc has been in Service. This article from Air Clues June 1986 covers the incident in the South Atlantic where 15' of the Port Wing was severed off , but still RAF Albert got home. Sadly as a result of this mid-air a Sea King Crew were lost (RIP).
I'm sure there are other instances where things have stopped working, dropped off or failed ... but RAF Albert still got it's crew home safe ... which might prompt a few more stories
Also ... Great respect for the Engineers with this particular post incident recovery
Source Credit : Crown MOD RAF Air Clues June 1986
More pics ...
Image Credit : C-130.net
Coff.
PS. I appreciate we eventually lost XV206 in 2006. Wrecked at a dirt landing strip after hitting land mine on roll-out near Lashkar Gar, Afghanistan.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 16th Mar 2015 at 08:26.
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Another piece from Air Clues ...
A Flt Eng (F/L G. D. Hatt) transferring from the Bev to the Herc and noticing all the dial needles were in the wrong place
Source Credit : Crown MOD RAF Air Clues June 1975
Coff.
A Flt Eng (F/L G. D. Hatt) transferring from the Bev to the Herc and noticing all the dial needles were in the wrong place
Source Credit : Crown MOD RAF Air Clues June 1975
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 16th Mar 2015 at 09:37.
Coff
Yes I remember that article too! But - Gerry was a Flt Eng!
Had a quarter next door to him at South Cerney when we came back from Changi. We were so envious of him and his good lady as they could afford to go out for lunch every Sunday - probably cos' they had no kids!
Had a quarter next door to him at South Cerney when we came back from Changi. We were so envious of him and his good lady as they could afford to go out for lunch every Sunday - probably cos' they had no kids!
Last edited by Brian 48nav; 16th Mar 2015 at 09:33. Reason: wrong word
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Coff, nice pics of 206 on the pan at MPA, what the article and pics fail to mention was that aircraft was the test bed for the MAROC pods on the wingtips, and had additional wiring for the "pallet" that was occassionally used for long sorties to the west of the Islands. Fortunatley the airbridge that landed at Stanley later that week also had the wiring so the crew flew home by BA 747 in comfort.
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S Atlantic wing strike
The RAF responded to this incident with a distinct lack of testicular fortitude. The Navy insisted on disciplinary action against the Herc captain. An outrage which was eventually averted. He should have been awarded an immediate DFC to my mind.