Ukraine Crisis 2014
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N. Spain
Age: 79
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know western forces have been much diminished since the height of the Cold War, but Russia's have been even more so. Add the fact that there's a helluva lot more countries in NATO than there were then. Personally if it ever came to a fight I think it would be pretty one-sided. One can imagine the Russian forces defecting en-masse, now they know all about our way of life, many of them having tasted it.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,923
Received 2,845 Likes
on
1,215 Posts
Words fail me... Graphic
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,809
Received 135 Likes
on
63 Posts
BBC News implies resolution.
Signing agreements, new elections etc.
Signing agreements, new elections etc.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grimsby
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No Harriers, no Nimrods, no Carriers, no Cluster Bombs. The British armed forces now barely visible to the naked eye. A political leadership willing to spend over £25,000,000,000 per year on "foreign aid" and the so called "EU", and a Prime Minister who regards "gay marriage" as more important that national defence.
Mr Putin must be pissing himself laughing at the prospect of that sanctimonious hypocritical ******-up has-been of a country "intervening".
GET REAL.
Mr Putin must be pissing himself laughing at the prospect of that sanctimonious hypocritical ******-up has-been of a country "intervening".
GET REAL.
Well, we've still got a bigger GDP than Russia & their industrial base is shot - as Max Hastings once wrote, it couldn't even build a toaster you'd want to buy. In fact, pretty much all they are good for is weapons, natural gas, and vodka.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure where your arguments heading, stendec. Are you seriously suggesting we ought to intervene militarily in Ukraine? With or without the aircraft you list, this would be a total disaster and also grabbed as a pretext to discredit the protestors as agents of foreign powers.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dead_pan, don't forget the Russian space programme. They are the only ones with manned launch capability. The Chinese have the ability but are new to the game. So for now Russia are the leaders of the world in the field of space exploration.
As for any talk of western military intervention, not a chance! The risks of World War 3 are to high.
I still think the logical thing here is to see a partition. Two new nations, ''Western Ukraine'' joining the EU and ''Eastern Ukraine'' going with Russia. It should keep the majority of Ukrainians happy with pro Russian east going east and the pro European west going west.
As for any talk of western military intervention, not a chance! The risks of World War 3 are to high.
I still think the logical thing here is to see a partition. Two new nations, ''Western Ukraine'' joining the EU and ''Eastern Ukraine'' going with Russia. It should keep the majority of Ukrainians happy with pro Russian east going east and the pro European west going west.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think Stendec is right to state the obvious, as a conventional fighting nation we are now down to nothing of credible worth. The UK military is no longer in any position to act in any real role abroad. Our EU allies even less so.
One of the only good things of the day is our own prime minister, defence minister et al have been entirely absent from making any comments or trying to wade in and sound statesmanlike.
Putin and the world he represents seems a very ugly, brutal, bullying cynical one and I hope this was noted by at least some of the UK population.
One of the only good things of the day is our own prime minister, defence minister et al have been entirely absent from making any comments or trying to wade in and sound statesmanlike.
Putin and the world he represents seems a very ugly, brutal, bullying cynical one and I hope this was noted by at least some of the UK population.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hangarshuffle, most of my Russian friends like Putin, they think he is great.
On the whole I don't see he or his government are any worse than ours, at the end of the day its the US, UK and now France also who tend to mostly go around the world invading and bombing places, toppling governments and regimes as we please. Plus with his KGB/FSB background he has got to be more switched on than most/all western politicians.
I agree with your points about the British military though, our politicians must be mad, they use the military more and more but at the same time have cut, cut and cut! I think the wars were mostly mistakes and have done no good and in many cases made things worse, but to send our military to war and to keep cutting it at the same time is total insanity!
On the whole I don't see he or his government are any worse than ours, at the end of the day its the US, UK and now France also who tend to mostly go around the world invading and bombing places, toppling governments and regimes as we please. Plus with his KGB/FSB background he has got to be more switched on than most/all western politicians.
I agree with your points about the British military though, our politicians must be mad, they use the military more and more but at the same time have cut, cut and cut! I think the wars were mostly mistakes and have done no good and in many cases made things worse, but to send our military to war and to keep cutting it at the same time is total insanity!
Putin and the world he represents seems a very ugly, brutal, bullying cynical one and I hope this was noted by at least some of the UK population.
They are the only ones with manned launch capability.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes best to let the Scottish have the freedom they deserve.
I have also read about movements in the USA who want various states to leave the US government. I think Texas was one who felt they had a good economic case for withdrawing. I could imagine Washington DC just loving that!
I have also read about movements in the USA who want various states to leave the US government. I think Texas was one who felt they had a good economic case for withdrawing. I could imagine Washington DC just loving that!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,923
Received 2,845 Likes
on
1,215 Posts
One would imagine
Putin is just awaiting the end of the Olympics, and despite all the bluster and political showboating, it will be Georgia 2.
Putin is just awaiting the end of the Olympics, and despite all the bluster and political showboating, it will be Georgia 2.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: N. Spain
Age: 79
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Telegraph appears to have been awarded the OBE since its print run.
Has brave Sir Yanukovych really read the writing on the wall, written in various languages?
Then again, bearing post-Christmas-shootings Romania in mind, there was more of a palace coup with good stage management with plausible but irrelevant taxi drivers booked to go on the teevee.
Has brave Sir Yanukovych really read the writing on the wall, written in various languages?
Then again, bearing post-Christmas-shootings Romania in mind, there was more of a palace coup with good stage management with plausible but irrelevant taxi drivers booked to go on the teevee.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Huge Split: Eastern Ukraine rises against Kiev - YouTube
http://rt.com/news/thousands-gather-...n-ukraine-252/
Southeast seeks to restore constitutional order, thousands gather in Kharkov
Published time: February 22, 2014 11:21
Edited time: February 22, 2014 12:55
The public gathering of deputies from local councils of southeastern Ukraine have declared they are taking responsibility for constitutional order in the country, as thousands of people have assembled in the city of Kharkov.
Follow RT's LIVE UPDATES
“We, the local authorities of all levels, the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Sevastopol region decided to take responsibility for ensuring the constitutional order and the rights of citizens on their territory,” their resolution said.
The Kharkov public gathering has announced a number of measures local authorities should take in response to the developments in Kiev. They should take full responsibility for all decision in respective regions with no regard to authorities in Kiev until the constitutional order in Ukraine is restored, a resolution of the gathering says.
They authorities should take measures to protect arms depots and prevent their take-over and looting by radical opposition activists.
The deputies have criticized the decision adopted by the Parliament (Verkhovna Rada) in the last few days, saying they are raising doubts about its legitimacy.
The gathering says the legislative acts may have been passed involuntary and are neither legitimate nor lawful.
The resent decisions of the national parliament were taken in conditions “of terror, threats of violence and death,” the resolution says.
Meanwhile, citizens are encouraged to form local militias to protect public order. Local authorities are to fund and support those militias.
Over 10, 000 people have gathered at the city’s Sport Palace, where a total of 3,477 deputies have been holding a meeting.
The situation remains generally quiet with the crowd being partly in good spirits and partly subdued and concerned, Itar-Tass news agency reports from the Palace.
“3, 477 deputies from local councils in southeastern Ukraine have gathered. We have gathered here not to separate the country, but to save it,” the regional governor, Mikhail Dobkin, told the crowd.
The head of the Kharkov administration, Gennady Kernes, has called the public gathering “an attempt by qualified deputies from the east of the country to stabilize the situation.”
"My colleagues and I have been personally threatened. But today we have gathered to change the situation,” he said. “We will not give in; we will fight till the end.”
The statement has been echoed by Rada’s Party of Regions deputy, Vadim Kolesnichenko, who also said that politicians are being threatened and “their families are basically hostages [of the situation].”
Russia sent several officials in the capacity of observers to the gathering, including Aleksey Pushkov, the head of Russian parliamentary commission on foreign affairs, Mikhail Markelov, Pushkov’s counterpart in the Council of Federation, the upper chamber of the parliament, and several governors from regions in eastern Russia.
“The decisions taken here are positive and concrete. What is important is that everything voiced here was implemented in the interests of the Ukrainian people and the entire Ukraine. What Ukraine needs now is common sense and a survival instinct,” said Evgeny Savchenko, Governor of Russia’s Belgorod region, which borders Ukraine, commenting on the Kharkov gathering.
http://rt.com/news/thousands-gather-...n-ukraine-252/
Southeast seeks to restore constitutional order, thousands gather in Kharkov
Published time: February 22, 2014 11:21
Edited time: February 22, 2014 12:55
The public gathering of deputies from local councils of southeastern Ukraine have declared they are taking responsibility for constitutional order in the country, as thousands of people have assembled in the city of Kharkov.
Follow RT's LIVE UPDATES
“We, the local authorities of all levels, the Supreme Council of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Sevastopol region decided to take responsibility for ensuring the constitutional order and the rights of citizens on their territory,” their resolution said.
The Kharkov public gathering has announced a number of measures local authorities should take in response to the developments in Kiev. They should take full responsibility for all decision in respective regions with no regard to authorities in Kiev until the constitutional order in Ukraine is restored, a resolution of the gathering says.
They authorities should take measures to protect arms depots and prevent their take-over and looting by radical opposition activists.
The deputies have criticized the decision adopted by the Parliament (Verkhovna Rada) in the last few days, saying they are raising doubts about its legitimacy.
The gathering says the legislative acts may have been passed involuntary and are neither legitimate nor lawful.
The resent decisions of the national parliament were taken in conditions “of terror, threats of violence and death,” the resolution says.
Meanwhile, citizens are encouraged to form local militias to protect public order. Local authorities are to fund and support those militias.
Over 10, 000 people have gathered at the city’s Sport Palace, where a total of 3,477 deputies have been holding a meeting.
The situation remains generally quiet with the crowd being partly in good spirits and partly subdued and concerned, Itar-Tass news agency reports from the Palace.
“3, 477 deputies from local councils in southeastern Ukraine have gathered. We have gathered here not to separate the country, but to save it,” the regional governor, Mikhail Dobkin, told the crowd.
The head of the Kharkov administration, Gennady Kernes, has called the public gathering “an attempt by qualified deputies from the east of the country to stabilize the situation.”
"My colleagues and I have been personally threatened. But today we have gathered to change the situation,” he said. “We will not give in; we will fight till the end.”
The statement has been echoed by Rada’s Party of Regions deputy, Vadim Kolesnichenko, who also said that politicians are being threatened and “their families are basically hostages [of the situation].”
Russia sent several officials in the capacity of observers to the gathering, including Aleksey Pushkov, the head of Russian parliamentary commission on foreign affairs, Mikhail Markelov, Pushkov’s counterpart in the Council of Federation, the upper chamber of the parliament, and several governors from regions in eastern Russia.
“The decisions taken here are positive and concrete. What is important is that everything voiced here was implemented in the interests of the Ukrainian people and the entire Ukraine. What Ukraine needs now is common sense and a survival instinct,” said Evgeny Savchenko, Governor of Russia’s Belgorod region, which borders Ukraine, commenting on the Kharkov gathering.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,923
Received 2,845 Likes
on
1,215 Posts
They have impeached the President of the Ukraine and is on the move and has fled the capital, the police have signed up to the caretaker parliament and have gone back to the 2004 constitution, the defence minister has legged it to the Crimea. The police have pulled out of the centre and the protesters now hold control of all the buildings.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes he's headed east and is claiming a coup is underway
No doubt on Monday (after the Olympics closes) he'll ask for "fraternal assistance" - think Hungary, E Germany, Poland and Czecho here............
and just liek those cases we can't or won't do anything
No doubt on Monday (after the Olympics closes) he'll ask for "fraternal assistance" - think Hungary, E Germany, Poland and Czecho here............
and just liek those cases we can't or won't do anything