UK Maritime Patrol Aircraft - An Urgent Requirement
So you don't know? You could have just said that.
I think you've got the wrong idea here fella, I too think that Air Tanker is an outrageous abortion and waste of money. Equally though I'm not convinced there is/was a neverending supply of tri* spares to keep it going for a lot longer, but I was happy to be proved wrong by someone in the know.
I think you've got the wrong idea here fella, I too think that Air Tanker is an outrageous abortion and waste of money. Equally though I'm not convinced there is/was a neverending supply of tri* spares to keep it going for a lot longer, but I was happy to be proved wrong by someone in the know.
Ha! And there I was thinking you were going to tell me there are no 225mph nosewheel tyres! Lets get back to why there is no UK MPA while the defence budget is mispent on megabucks contracts.
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FSTA
Just a random thought, is there any way to get out of the current FSTA money drain? Is this something SDSR 15/16 could look at? and ... What alternative could we buy/lease to replace it with?
Not entirely thread drift, lets assume for arguments sake that any future MMA/MPA would need a tanker ...
Not entirely thread drift, lets assume for arguments sake that any future MMA/MPA would need a tanker ...
I don't want to turn this into another "Scottish Independence" thread (although I can see that happening.... 
), neither is this supposed to be a comment about whether Scotland should/could become an independent country. Rather it supposed to be a comment about the effect on the rest of the UKs military forces if the result is "yes". I don't think many people on pprune have fully realized the implications for a "yes" vote to the remainder of the UKs armed forces.
Quite simply, if the result is a "yes" it will drive a coach and horses through all pre-planned defence expenditure for the next 5-10 years as a minimum. MOD will have to absorb the costs of moving a variety of assets around, just a few examples of which include finding a new home for the SSBN fleet, indeed all the submarine fleet, perhaps beefing up Leeming as a northern QRA airfield, closing or reducing bases, moving manpower, etc. Given that the UK governments income will shrink by about 9% then the defence budget may face a 9% cut. Will all Scots currently serving be offered the chance for a "free" transfer to the Scottish defence forces, will there be compulsory redundancies as the MODs manpower requirement shrinks due to a loss of assets, etc, etc...... It just goes on and on.
West Germany funded the costs of reunification with East Germany, but the whole of the UK will fund much of the costs of the creation of an independent Scotland, if only because many of the costs will have to be met before the official independence day.
And how likely is this scenario, well the latest polls show the two sides almost neck and neck, and the vote is only a few months away. It stands a pretty good chance of becoming reality. It is the elephant in the room, or people simply don't appreciate the impact it will have.
Discussions on buying an MPA/MMA, keeping Sentinel, how many F-35s we buy, post Afghanistan reductions, SDSR 15/16, all pale into insignificance in comparison to the result of the referendum in just 5 months time. If the answer is "yes" it will probably have the biggest impact on UK, across the whole spectrum of affairs (a UK parliament election in 2015 where 60 odd MPs will disappear just a year later in 2016, with a possible change/fall of government as a result being just one example), since world war 2.
I'll leave you now to carry on discussing how much the UK needs an MPA/MMA (which I happen to agree with), what to buy, how many, which service will man/crew it, where it will be based, etc.....
), neither is this supposed to be a comment about whether Scotland should/could become an independent country. Rather it supposed to be a comment about the effect on the rest of the UKs military forces if the result is "yes". I don't think many people on pprune have fully realized the implications for a "yes" vote to the remainder of the UKs armed forces.Quite simply, if the result is a "yes" it will drive a coach and horses through all pre-planned defence expenditure for the next 5-10 years as a minimum. MOD will have to absorb the costs of moving a variety of assets around, just a few examples of which include finding a new home for the SSBN fleet, indeed all the submarine fleet, perhaps beefing up Leeming as a northern QRA airfield, closing or reducing bases, moving manpower, etc. Given that the UK governments income will shrink by about 9% then the defence budget may face a 9% cut. Will all Scots currently serving be offered the chance for a "free" transfer to the Scottish defence forces, will there be compulsory redundancies as the MODs manpower requirement shrinks due to a loss of assets, etc, etc...... It just goes on and on.
West Germany funded the costs of reunification with East Germany, but the whole of the UK will fund much of the costs of the creation of an independent Scotland, if only because many of the costs will have to be met before the official independence day.
And how likely is this scenario, well the latest polls show the two sides almost neck and neck, and the vote is only a few months away. It stands a pretty good chance of becoming reality. It is the elephant in the room, or people simply don't appreciate the impact it will have.
Discussions on buying an MPA/MMA, keeping Sentinel, how many F-35s we buy, post Afghanistan reductions, SDSR 15/16, all pale into insignificance in comparison to the result of the referendum in just 5 months time. If the answer is "yes" it will probably have the biggest impact on UK, across the whole spectrum of affairs (a UK parliament election in 2015 where 60 odd MPs will disappear just a year later in 2016, with a possible change/fall of government as a result being just one example), since world war 2.
I'll leave you now to carry on discussing how much the UK needs an MPA/MMA (which I happen to agree with), what to buy, how many, which service will man/crew it, where it will be based, etc.....
Last edited by Biggus; 22nd Apr 2014 at 19:34.
Quite right Biggus. However, I would doubt that the FSTA contract will be cut because of a yes vote. We will continue to pay one and a half million pounds every single day for the next twentyfive years for that mistake! 
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I'll leave you now to carry on discussing how much the UK needs an MPA/MMA (which I happen to agree with), what to buy, how many, which service will man/crew it, where it will be based, etc.....
9
Joint RAF/RN
Waddington - in the old 5 Sqn building.
...... and the next debate is sqn number(s)?
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PA, I'll bet you a beer, although might take a while to claim it, the numbers will be:
8 x P8
At least 16 crews possibly 20, forming 2 Sqns.
One will be 201 and I wouldn't be surprised if the other was 5
8 x P8
At least 16 crews possibly 20, forming 2 Sqns.
One will be 201 and I wouldn't be surprised if the other was 5
PFMG,
It's a fun game to daydream about what may be but I'd buy you something far stronger than a beer if you were right.
Interestingly though, if for example the decision was made to go for the P-8 in SDSR 15, they could be delivered in 2018. If we adopted the same model for crew manning as the USN, that would be a 9 person crew with 3 pilots, 2 WSO and 4 WSOp. Multiply that by 16 = 48 pilots required + 32 WSO + 64 WSOp, without including OCU, Standards and Sqn execs.
Looks like definite jobs for the retired Tonka backseaters then!
It's a fun game to daydream about what may be but I'd buy you something far stronger than a beer if you were right.
Interestingly though, if for example the decision was made to go for the P-8 in SDSR 15, they could be delivered in 2018. If we adopted the same model for crew manning as the USN, that would be a 9 person crew with 3 pilots, 2 WSO and 4 WSOp. Multiply that by 16 = 48 pilots required + 32 WSO + 64 WSOp, without including OCU, Standards and Sqn execs.
Looks like definite jobs for the retired Tonka backseaters then!
Other options? Carriers are scrapped on the stocks, F35 binned for UK, Tornado extended, Trident cut to 3 boats with pro-rata loss of missiles/warheads and the three boats extended to 2030. A400 fleet cut. Plus, lots of "smaller" reductions.
What a shame they can't bin FSTA.
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What a shame they can't bin FSTA.
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