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UK Maritime Patrol Aircraft - An Urgent Requirement

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UK Maritime Patrol Aircraft - An Urgent Requirement

Old 21st Apr 2014, 19:57
  #401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
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Ha! And there I was thinking you were going to tell me there are no 225mph nosewheel tyres! Lets get back to why there is no UK MPA while the defence budget is mispent on megabucks contracts.

OAP
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Old 21st Apr 2014, 21:38
  #402 (permalink)  
 
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FSTA

Just a random thought, is there any way to get out of the current FSTA money drain? Is this something SDSR 15/16 could look at? and ... What alternative could we buy/lease to replace it with?

Not entirely thread drift, lets assume for arguments sake that any future MMA/MPA would need a tanker ...
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Old 22nd Apr 2014, 17:55
  #403 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Surely Scotland will be providing us with MPA capability when they get independence - that's what Salmond was saying..................
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Old 22nd Apr 2014, 18:24
  #404 (permalink)  
 
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I don't want to turn this into another "Scottish Independence" thread (although I can see that happening.... ), neither is this supposed to be a comment about whether Scotland should/could become an independent country. Rather it supposed to be a comment about the effect on the rest of the UKs military forces if the result is "yes". I don't think many people on PPRuNe have fully realized the implications for a "yes" vote to the remainder of the UKs armed forces.

Quite simply, if the result is a "yes" it will drive a coach and horses through all pre-planned defence expenditure for the next 5-10 years as a minimum. MOD will have to absorb the costs of moving a variety of assets around, just a few examples of which include finding a new home for the SSBN fleet, indeed all the submarine fleet, perhaps beefing up Leeming as a northern QRA airfield, closing or reducing bases, moving manpower, etc. Given that the UK governments income will shrink by about 9% then the defence budget may face a 9% cut. Will all Scots currently serving be offered the chance for a "free" transfer to the Scottish defence forces, will there be compulsory redundancies as the MODs manpower requirement shrinks due to a loss of assets, etc, etc...... It just goes on and on.

West Germany funded the costs of reunification with East Germany, but the whole of the UK will fund much of the costs of the creation of an independent Scotland, if only because many of the costs will have to be met before the official independence day.

And how likely is this scenario, well the latest polls show the two sides almost neck and neck, and the vote is only a few months away. It stands a pretty good chance of becoming reality. It is the elephant in the room, or people simply don't appreciate the impact it will have.

Discussions on buying an MPA/MMA, keeping Sentinel, how many F-35s we buy, post Afghanistan reductions, SDSR 15/16, all pale into insignificance in comparison to the result of the referendum in just 5 months time. If the answer is "yes" it will probably have the biggest impact on UK, across the whole spectrum of affairs (a UK parliament election in 2015 where 60 odd MPs will disappear just a year later in 2016, with a possible change/fall of government as a result being just one example), since world war 2.

I'll leave you now to carry on discussing how much the UK needs an MPA/MMA (which I happen to agree with), what to buy, how many, which service will man/crew it, where it will be based, etc.....

Last edited by Biggus; 22nd Apr 2014 at 20:34.
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Old 22nd Apr 2014, 19:39
  #405 (permalink)  
 
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Quite right Biggus. However, I would doubt that the FSTA contract will be cut because of a yes vote. We will continue to pay one and a half million pounds every single day for the next twentyfive years for that mistake!

OAP
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Old 22nd Apr 2014, 21:35
  #406 (permalink)  
 
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Might be a good time to move bank accounts south of the border, then.
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Old 23rd Apr 2014, 10:06
  #407 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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I'll leave you now to carry on discussing how much the UK needs an MPA/MMA (which I happen to agree with), what to buy, how many, which service will man/crew it, where it will be based, etc.....
P8-Poseidon

9

Joint RAF/RN

Waddington - in the old 5 Sqn building.

...... and the next debate is sqn number(s)?
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Old 23rd Apr 2014, 10:22
  #408 (permalink)  
 
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Cracked it PA.

120 Sqn.
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Old 23rd Apr 2014, 11:41
  #409 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Cracked it PA.

120 Sqn.
Right numbers, wrong order. You would at least want a sqn with some decent history and heritage behind it!!
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Old 23rd Apr 2014, 11:49
  #410 (permalink)  
 
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201 without a doubt.

Born in the Royal Navy and if my memory serves me well, always had an RN exchange Officer/NCO.
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Old 23rd Apr 2014, 12:10
  #411 (permalink)  
 
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201 most definitely. Could never afford the badges for 120.
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Old 23rd Apr 2014, 12:17
  #412 (permalink)  
 
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What PA said...

Not sure about CXX, mind....

Remember that Sqn roof...?!
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Old 23rd Apr 2014, 21:45
  #413 (permalink)  
 
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PA, I'll bet you a beer, although might take a while to claim it, the numbers will be:

8 x P8

At least 16 crews possibly 20, forming 2 Sqns.

One will be 201 and I wouldn't be surprised if the other was 5
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 04:56
  #414 (permalink)  
 
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PFMG,

It's a fun game to daydream about what may be but I'd buy you something far stronger than a beer if you were right.

Interestingly though, if for example the decision was made to go for the P-8 in SDSR 15, they could be delivered in 2018. If we adopted the same model for crew manning as the USN, that would be a 9 person crew with 3 pilots, 2 WSO and 4 WSOp. Multiply that by 16 = 48 pilots required + 32 WSO + 64 WSOp, without including OCU, Standards and Sqn execs.

Looks like definite jobs for the retired Tonka backseaters then!
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 06:30
  #415 (permalink)  
 
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What colour will we buy? I hope we go for the LX version with matching leather trim.
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 08:09
  #416 (permalink)  
 
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I say there is no chance of a UK MPA buy this side of 2025 if the Scots vote for Independence.

OAP
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 09:12
  #417 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
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MPA buy
What about other options?
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 10:26
  #418 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Other options? Carriers are scrapped on the stocks, F35 binned for UK, Tornado extended, Trident cut to 3 boats with pro-rata loss of missiles/warheads and the three boats extended to 2030. A400 fleet cut. Plus, lots of "smaller" reductions.
What a shame they can't bin FSTA.

OAP
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 11:29
  #419 (permalink)  
 
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OAP

Sorry you miss my point. We didn't originally buy our first 4 C17s, we leased them.
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Old 24th Apr 2014, 13:00
  #420 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Quite so Roland, a political ploy to lease that was proven to be hyper-expensive and so, we then bought them outright! Then what happens? They come along with a cunning plan to lease the FSTA! Now, the C17 situation was partly understandable because it filled a huge void in a critical capability. But, the FSTA has become a money-making machine that relied upon the early retirement of the TriStar for a role and, it does not bring a new capability. So, great! We spend a fortune on a shiny new-ish hire-jet that sort-of does the job. Meanwhile the paid-for TriStar gets scrapped instead of enhanced and life extended (not new and no one promoted by it) and, things like MPA are off the plot or, totally off the plot if Scotland votes for Independence.
Muppets.

OAP
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