Ouch.... seems a Harsh sentence
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Or is it because the RN once mutinied so the oath is in doubt? RN officers have to drag their swords around with them as punishment for the mutiny, Yes?
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The Marines 
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When these lads complete their sentence at MCTC Colchester, if they are to be discharged, then they will almost certainly be given some resettlement advice, (though possibly not a course of training?), the staff will be well versed in what jobs may not be available that require a security clearance.
I wondered if the corporal might get charged with mutiny as he seems to be a ring-leader who incited this minor uprising. When the 1st (Para) Bn. of the French Foreign Legion rebelled in Algiers, (in the sixties?), the French eventually shot the Sgt ringleader for inciting mutiny.
I wondered if the corporal might get charged with mutiny as he seems to be a ring-leader who incited this minor uprising. When the 1st (Para) Bn. of the French Foreign Legion rebelled in Algiers, (in the sixties?), the French eventually shot the Sgt ringleader for inciting mutiny.
I believe MCTC do their best with those being discharged, who are not however entitled to the same resettlement package as normal leavers.
I also understand that only two out of the 16 were dismissed by the court martial.
I also understand that only two out of the 16 were dismissed by the court martial.
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It's all very well saying the Cpl should have done this or that, or could have done this or that or whatever, but the reality is that often it isn't that easy. As a JNCO - RAF, Cpl as it happens, on one station we had a non-too senior Eng Off who was an absolute disaster.
There was never anything specific that you could use as the basis for a "complaint". So anything at best would have been seen as just having a whinge. But when we all had cause to "whinge" two or three times a day each working day, then what?
Recollect one comand/directive that the tool store should close 30 mins before the end of a shift to allow the storeman to audit the tools. The EO was totally oblivious to the fact that we actually worked up until the end of a shift, and needed tools. Often returning off the line well after the end of a shift with tools to be returned before leaving.
This was just one incident of many where he made our ability to do our jobs efficiently virtually impossible. There was enough muttering in the crewroom to suggest that a sit-down if not "mutiny" was on the cards. Luckily he was moved before it got that far, but it was close - very close.
PS. It's worth remembering "It's the last straw that breaks the camels back". Not necessarily the heaviest either.
There was never anything specific that you could use as the basis for a "complaint". So anything at best would have been seen as just having a whinge. But when we all had cause to "whinge" two or three times a day each working day, then what?
Recollect one comand/directive that the tool store should close 30 mins before the end of a shift to allow the storeman to audit the tools. The EO was totally oblivious to the fact that we actually worked up until the end of a shift, and needed tools. Often returning off the line well after the end of a shift with tools to be returned before leaving.
This was just one incident of many where he made our ability to do our jobs efficiently virtually impossible. There was enough muttering in the crewroom to suggest that a sit-down if not "mutiny" was on the cards. Luckily he was moved before it got that far, but it was close - very close.
PS. It's worth remembering "It's the last straw that breaks the camels back". Not necessarily the heaviest either.
Last edited by alisoncc; 13th Dec 2013 at 03:19. Reason: Add PS
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Believe me, I know. Strong leadership from the top down is essential at such a time to establish new unit identity, pride and corporate loyalty.
That may be why it's discipline had broken down. It is clear that there was a leadership problem within this particular company and the section had lost trust, confidence in and respect for the officer and SNCO. .........
As my old brain cells recall many years ago in Canada, the Airborne regiment based in Petawa was disbanded. Officers were rotating in and out every few months and the NCO's seemed to be a law to themselves.....
Just my 2 cents.
That may be why it's discipline had broken down. It is clear that there was a leadership problem within this particular company and the section had lost trust, confidence in and respect for the officer and SNCO. .........
As my old brain cells recall many years ago in Canada, the Airborne regiment based in Petawa was disbanded. Officers were rotating in and out every few months and the NCO's seemed to be a law to themselves.....
Just my 2 cents.
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Or is it because the RN once mutinied so the oath is in doubt? RN officers have to drag their swords around with them as punishment for the mutiny, Yes?
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The sword drags so when boarding an officer could discard the scabbard which could get in the way, also when climbing (rigging one supposes). The Admiralty decreed there would be no "Gentleman Officers". A good read from one in the know is via Rum Ration posting, link below. Post #5
Officers, Swords and Gentlemen
Edit to remove now incorrect info.
Officers, Swords and Gentlemen
Edit to remove now incorrect info.
Last edited by Bollotom; 13th Dec 2013 at 13:43.
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Originally Posted by Genstabler
....then free. And unemployed with a criminal record. Good career choice.
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I did wonder that, one wonders how a criminal Service record for failed to stand up when asked would translate over to a Civilian one.
BTW re the Omdurman Platoon Incident, the Officer is named in one of the replies, and not in the text of the issue, Just to clarify it the response is added below
BTW re the Omdurman Platoon Incident, the Officer is named in one of the replies, and not in the text of the issue, Just to clarify it the response is added below
Roy Carman
I would like to thank Roy for this wonderful piece. I do not feel that alive or dead we should protect the good name of this person. Roy is not the only one who remembers this mans brutality. He is/was Lt. McClagan.Also I was under the impression that they were all 'troop' at the start and changed to 'platoon' somewhere along the way? - Webmaster.
I would like to thank Roy for this wonderful piece. I do not feel that alive or dead we should protect the good name of this person. Roy is not the only one who remembers this mans brutality. He is/was Lt. McClagan.Also I was under the impression that they were all 'troop' at the start and changed to 'platoon' somewhere along the way? - Webmaster.
There is Leadership and there is Discipline.....one is no substitute for the other.
This could have been handled much differently.
This could have been handled much differently.
Bollotom
Ref RN swearing the oath of allegiance, see my post #107, which was correct. Your linked Wikipedia entry is out of date. This is from JSP 830, my bold:
Ref RN swearing the oath of allegiance, see my post #107, which was correct. Your linked Wikipedia entry is out of date. This is from JSP 830, my bold:
8. Oath of allegiance. Whilst the signed declaration made at enlistment is a legal matter, the oath of allegiance has an educational, symbolic and solemn purpose. The swearing may be conducted during the first day of training or if considered more appropriate, at another suitable point, at the convenience of the single-Service. Swearing the oath of allegiance is a requirement of the Services for service in Her Majesty’s forces (this is a new provision for the RN because people offering to enter RN service have historically not sworn an oath of allegiance). Swearing the oath of allegiance is viewed as a mark of the individual’s loyalty to the Crown and therefore, their willingness faithfully to serve as a member of the armed forces.
Why would any of them end up with a criminal record? They seem to have broken military law, but I can't see a civil offence that would follow them. Not sure how much they would have to divulge about dismissal (perhaps with disgrace?), but nowadays Army 2004-2013 on a CV seems to be the max anyone actually looks into someone's history?
The actual rules covering various situations are more complicated than that and are subject to change, so I suggest that anyone to whom this applies should check carefully before making any declaration - and before pleading guilty in any service proceedings including summary dealings.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Mind you with 750 officers, more than half of the UK Deterrent Force, involved, disciplinary options become somewhat limited.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I heard his wife saying yesterday that Sgt Blackman is not a murderer. The Telegraph picked up the story...
Marine A wife: It was war, my husband is not a murderer - Telegraph
Marine A wife: It was war, my husband is not a murderer - Telegraph