An insult to all
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I have no issue whatsoever with folk choosing not to wear the poppy weather they are public figures or otherwise. I even admit to finding the whole thing a little bit overly orchestrated these days with a creeping state character to it. I find something terribly contrived seeing politicians and media types eager to be seen wearing the poppy from 1 Nov. I will make a donation and wear the poppy a few days before the 11th and at our town remembrance day service. That is my want - each to their own.
I do wish however, that those who wish to make some sort of statement, anti war or otherwise, would do so during an event of their own and not hijack what for many people in this country is still a very personal and even spiritual moment in our cultural calendar. But then we live in an age where offending others is taken as a right.
I do wish however, that those who wish to make some sort of statement, anti war or otherwise, would do so during an event of their own and not hijack what for many people in this country is still a very personal and even spiritual moment in our cultural calendar. But then we live in an age where offending others is taken as a right.
Tom,
Good answer. Thank you. I don't like first names with clergy or doctors, so I think I'll take the middle piece of your advice and go with the P word.
Again, thank you.
Good answer. Thank you. I don't like first names with clergy or doctors, so I think I'll take the middle piece of your advice and go with the P word.
Again, thank you.
Tom, Courtney,
Respect to both, and possibly the correct way of looking at it all. No one forces anybody to wear a poppy, and not wearing one does not indicate an irreverence to the sacrifice of our troops during many conflicts in the past. Is someone who donates £1000 to "Help for Heroes" who does not wear a poppy any less worthy than the man who throws 50 pence in the collection bin ? All are equally benefactors to the cause, and we should recognise that.
Smudge
Respect to both, and possibly the correct way of looking at it all. No one forces anybody to wear a poppy, and not wearing one does not indicate an irreverence to the sacrifice of our troops during many conflicts in the past. Is someone who donates £1000 to "Help for Heroes" who does not wear a poppy any less worthy than the man who throws 50 pence in the collection bin ? All are equally benefactors to the cause, and we should recognise that.
Smudge
Yeah, Tanker, that was the thought that went through my head at first meeting.
Smudge, Mate, I hadn't expressed a view about the Poppy thing. For me, it's each to his, her or the Padre's choice. Mine was a simple request for advice.
Smudge, Mate, I hadn't expressed a view about the Poppy thing. For me, it's each to his, her or the Padre's choice. Mine was a simple request for advice.
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Smudge,
Exactly, too many folk are all to ready to condemn these days without a care or respect for being properly informed. To be honest it gets to the stage where their complaints/arguments are empty of meaning or purpose - all fodder from the age of twit er.
Exactly, too many folk are all to ready to condemn these days without a care or respect for being properly informed. To be honest it gets to the stage where their complaints/arguments are empty of meaning or purpose - all fodder from the age of twit er.
Last edited by TomJoad; 30th Oct 2013 at 22:34.
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Re some of the previous posts, yes people are forced to wear them - I would be very surprised if military orders or directives did not stipulate where and when you WILL wear the poppy. I think there is a tad of PC in the military and we (particularly at the SO level) can not be seen not to fall into line. I, for one, do not need to wear a poppy to remember my friends that I have lost in aviation crashes, not all in War.
Let it be a personal thing BUT I do so agree with the reason for collecting, if I have to wear a poppy to ensure the cash goes to the needy, that is a sacrifice I am more than willing to make. If it (wearing a poppy for 11 days) is the only thing that makes me think of the fallen - I am a poor specimen of a human being!!!
Let it be a personal thing BUT I do so agree with the reason for collecting, if I have to wear a poppy to ensure the cash goes to the needy, that is a sacrifice I am more than willing to make. If it (wearing a poppy for 11 days) is the only thing that makes me think of the fallen - I am a poor specimen of a human being!!!
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Thankfully in NZ the RSA conducts 'Poppy Day', which is the last Friday before ANZAC Day. Thus the 'debate' (if we can call it that) about when to wear a poppy is moot, they're only available from a max of a week before. When I was in the UK I certainly noted with much tutting and shaking of the head about the race to be wearing a poppy first, much like Xmas ads and stuff in September!
Had this vicar bothered to remove her blinkers and take a close look at the cult she belongs to, and preaches on behalf of, she would find that the symbol she wears round her neck represents the best part of two thousand years of slaughter,
pillage, rape and corruption of the very worst sort.
Any qualms she has about wearing a poppy should pale into insignificance.
pillage, rape and corruption of the very worst sort.
Any qualms she has about wearing a poppy should pale into insignificance.
The cross was a symbol that one man was prepared to suffer an agonising death to save the souls of his fellow men. That at least is the belief of Christians.
The fact that it has been misused over the centuries, for example by being carried at the head of conquering armies is the fault of those who would choose to misuse the symbol, not of the symbol itself.
The poppy is a symbol of remembrance of those who have died in war. The fact that it is misused by many, to the extent of being doled out in TV studios, or being ordered to be worn by servicemen on parade is in a lesser way something similar. Misuse of the poppy should not detract from its original meaning.
The fact that it has been misused over the centuries, for example by being carried at the head of conquering armies is the fault of those who would choose to misuse the symbol, not of the symbol itself.
The poppy is a symbol of remembrance of those who have died in war. The fact that it is misused by many, to the extent of being doled out in TV studios, or being ordered to be worn by servicemen on parade is in a lesser way something similar. Misuse of the poppy should not detract from its original meaning.
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Some interesting replies,
Some I disagree with quite strongly, in fact I'd go so far as to offer to buy the coffees while we argue the point for and against my "cult"
But each to his own, as a practising Christian, albeit not a very good one, I do find the stance of this vicar somewhat upsetting, and it strikes me more to be about free publicity for her than her beliefs.
Everyone has the right not to wear a poppy, if we force one person to wear one what have we become?
As to the cross, generally I do not wear one.
I carry one in my wallet as a reminder of what my saviour has done for me, it does not protect me from harm or guarantee me anything, it is simply a reminder of the greatness of My Lord's love for me.
Some I disagree with quite strongly, in fact I'd go so far as to offer to buy the coffees while we argue the point for and against my "cult"
But each to his own, as a practising Christian, albeit not a very good one, I do find the stance of this vicar somewhat upsetting, and it strikes me more to be about free publicity for her than her beliefs.
Everyone has the right not to wear a poppy, if we force one person to wear one what have we become?
As to the cross, generally I do not wear one.
I carry one in my wallet as a reminder of what my saviour has done for me, it does not protect me from harm or guarantee me anything, it is simply a reminder of the greatness of My Lord's love for me.
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This BBC Blackadder clip has been posted before ... however for me, the message is very clear and most poignant from 2:17 onwards ...
I can still remember as a lad, going with my Dad every 6th of June to the Dover War Memorial (early in the morning), where he would lay a single Red Rose that he had grown in our garden. When I was old enough to ask ... Dad explained that he would not/could not forget the men that fell around him on D-Day in the early hours before the main Normandy Landings started (H Hour) ... he was then a young Lieutenant with the Royal Engineers detailed to undertake pre-landing mine clearing duties on Sword Beach ... he was later awarded the MC for his actions.
The Poppy for me remains a powerful symbol of remembrance as TTN has said.
We WILL remember them.
Coff.
I can still remember as a lad, going with my Dad every 6th of June to the Dover War Memorial (early in the morning), where he would lay a single Red Rose that he had grown in our garden. When I was old enough to ask ... Dad explained that he would not/could not forget the men that fell around him on D-Day in the early hours before the main Normandy Landings started (H Hour) ... he was then a young Lieutenant with the Royal Engineers detailed to undertake pre-landing mine clearing duties on Sword Beach ... he was later awarded the MC for his actions.
The Poppy for me remains a powerful symbol of remembrance as TTN has said.
We WILL remember them.
Coff.
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I have been in the Armed Forces for a couple of years and I whole heartedly agree with anyone who does not wish to wear this symbol.
The very reason I am serving is to allow British men and women to enjoy their right to choose.
Whether that choice is democratic, social or environmental I will put my life on the line to allow my fellow citizens the right to choose.
The very reason I am serving is to allow British men and women to enjoy their right to choose.
Whether that choice is democratic, social or environmental I will put my life on the line to allow my fellow citizens the right to choose.
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Traditions are best honored by those with a desire to participate rather than those who feel obligated to
Originally Posted by tankertrashnav
The cross was a symbol that one man was prepared to suffer an agonising death to save the souls of his fellow men. That at least is the belief of Christians.
It's not about whichever God it is, or even no God at all, it's about remembering those who gave their lives for the freedoms we enjoy today. I'm not a religious person, but I do thank and remember those who died, and for the rest of the year do my bit (as many others do) to succour those who survived, their widows and their children. In many respects, God(s) are a bystander as "The People" show their thanks and support.
When the people (and Ministers of Religion) stop supporting, I doubt there's much a God can do to help.
Last edited by MPN11; 30th Oct 2013 at 19:48. Reason: iPad typing
MPN
Yes I do, just the same you won't find me marching in the gay pride parade as has been required by the San Diego city government of some of its employees.
Yes I do, just the same you won't find me marching in the gay pride parade as has been required by the San Diego city government of some of its employees.
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I have not yet bought this year's poppy.... Although I have one on my desk from last year, and one of the small metal poppy badges. I actively seek out ex-servicemen/women when buying a poppy, preferably ex RAF, but not essential. Ex-forces (not just war veterans, many others need assistance), Lifeboats and Air Ambulances definitely get my wallet open. These are things that our government should be financing to a greater extent, but we live in the present time, real world.