Leave entitlement ???
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BEagle,
you are so right Sir
The only things our lords and masters are interested in today are those desperately important things such as CCS, AFT, IRT blah
Never mind that you haven't done a dinghy drill lately ('cos there are no serviceable dinghies) Don't worry about not having any flying kit....is your CCS up-to-date? yes? then everything is ok.
I was recently told by my Boss that there is a 1 star at my group, whose sole job in life to ensure that everyone has passed the AFT.
What an utter disgrace.
The fact is that the Air farce is now being run by Rockapes and Blunties, and NOT by those who matter
How on earth have we got to this stage? how did we get to position where CCS and AFT and other Niff Naff are more important than flying Operational sorties??
I genuingly despair
Not to worry...days to do blah
you are so right Sir
The only things our lords and masters are interested in today are those desperately important things such as CCS, AFT, IRT blah
Never mind that you haven't done a dinghy drill lately ('cos there are no serviceable dinghies) Don't worry about not having any flying kit....is your CCS up-to-date? yes? then everything is ok.
I was recently told by my Boss that there is a 1 star at my group, whose sole job in life to ensure that everyone has passed the AFT.
What an utter disgrace.
The fact is that the Air farce is now being run by Rockapes and Blunties, and NOT by those who matter
How on earth have we got to this stage? how did we get to position where CCS and AFT and other Niff Naff are more important than flying Operational sorties??
I genuingly despair
Not to worry...days to do blah
Not wishing to stray of the blunty-bashing track but it's not that long ago that fitness and CCS was a war-fighting concern. During the Gulf War the most popular man on the stn was OC Regt when people started to realize that they might be scudded with something more unpleasant than CS gas. Furthermore, I recall that there was also some concern about the ability of some of the ground tradesmen to service and load jets whilst wearing NBC suits due to lack of fitness.
Sorry. Now where were we? Oh yes, blunties? Toss-pots, the lot of them!
Sorry. Now where were we? Oh yes, blunties? Toss-pots, the lot of them!
Last edited by Megaton; 11th May 2002 at 14:54.
I do agree that CCS has considerable merit - although the RAFP IT Sy lecture is probably the nadir. However, the attitude towards CCS shown by those attending the course usually influences the way the course is run! Pi$$ the Rocks off by moaning and you'll get something to moan about - especially from the chap who lights the CS pellets in the gas chamber...sorry, 'respirator test facility'.
RAFFT didn't exist in the more gentlemanly era of 30 years ago - indeed, only sportsmen committed jockstrapping; anyone else mentioning the idea would be treated with righteous suspicion and invited to get themselves a heavier glass if they wanted to 'work out' (whatever that means)... But I don't remember too many people keeling over; the only sickies were usually the jockstrappers with their twisted ankles or whatever....
Remember what happened to the person who invented 'jogging'...??
RAFFT didn't exist in the more gentlemanly era of 30 years ago - indeed, only sportsmen committed jockstrapping; anyone else mentioning the idea would be treated with righteous suspicion and invited to get themselves a heavier glass if they wanted to 'work out' (whatever that means)... But I don't remember too many people keeling over; the only sickies were usually the jockstrappers with their twisted ankles or whatever....
Remember what happened to the person who invented 'jogging'...??
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Perhaps a simple adjustment to the leave application process might ameliorate the problem of leave-jamming (or at least, leave-stats-jamming).
Consider the following: once the applicant has completed his leave application, he sends it directly to PSF. PSF record the application on SAMA and then send it to the applicant's supervisor for approval or rejection.
This procedure would relieve the applicant from any pressure to change his dates before submitting his application, prevent supervisors from blocking applications unnecessarily and provide the Service with accurate leave statistics.
Granted, it would make the leave application process slightly more wearisome, but hopefully to a positive end.
Consider the following: once the applicant has completed his leave application, he sends it directly to PSF. PSF record the application on SAMA and then send it to the applicant's supervisor for approval or rejection.
This procedure would relieve the applicant from any pressure to change his dates before submitting his application, prevent supervisors from blocking applications unnecessarily and provide the Service with accurate leave statistics.
Granted, it would make the leave application process slightly more wearisome, but hopefully to a positive end.
Last edited by Scud-U-Like; 13th May 2002 at 10:37.
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The problem you have at ISK is that if you wish for leave outside 'crew/block' you have to go through your skipper; then your specialist leader; then OC B and/or A, all of whom can say no and that's before you even fill in a leave app!
Even if you could set alarm lights flashing with 'Refused' leave, what would change? Our lords & masters are not going to turn round to T.B.Liar & co and say 'We can't do that, the guy's are owed leave".
However, I would like to see a 'Leave Buy Back' scheme, because the Treasury would make damn sure that no-one had any leave to buy back.
Even if you could set alarm lights flashing with 'Refused' leave, what would change? Our lords & masters are not going to turn round to T.B.Liar & co and say 'We can't do that, the guy's are owed leave".
However, I would like to see a 'Leave Buy Back' scheme, because the Treasury would make damn sure that no-one had any leave to buy back.
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The fastest route to 'Buy Back' will be more realistic stats. If these show consistent failure of the RAF to allow entitlement it will prove to be a far more powerfull argument than whingeing, and chest poking sessions.
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BEagle my dear chap, I hate to disagree with you, but your comments about the rocks are a little 'flawed'
I also believe that the regiment has a place in the RAF and a part to play. My concern is that it plays the wrong part
Q: When was the last time a British serviceman was killed by a chemical attack?
Ans: During the 1st World War
Q: When was the last time a British serviceman was killed by a terrorist gunman or bomber?
Ans: A lot more recently!
So what do we teach and practice at our CCS lectures? Yep, the dreaded chemical attack precautions!!! Why?
If you stick your fingers into the three pin socket on the wall, it will bl$$dy hurt (and probably burn a bit!)
You do not need to do it next year to check that it still hurts do you??
My point is that our lords and masters at the very top, have allowed these people to weald their big stick, and they are now an empire out of control. Just like our dear friends in all those nice hand brake mansions, and just like the Ped world. It is NOT my Flt Cdr, Sqn Cdr or even Stn Cdr who is deciding who goes on deployment to the desert etc. It is the Cpl PTI, the Cpl Rockape, the sacw scribbly blah.
The Air Farce has lost sight of it's primary role in life. That is to fly the aircraft and complete the mission. Not pander to the needs of a few fairly insignificant trades, who will use every means at their disposal to maintain their jobs in life!
Rant over, time for a lay down on my nice camp bed, under the stars. Where's that yellow and black handle??
I also believe that the regiment has a place in the RAF and a part to play. My concern is that it plays the wrong part
Q: When was the last time a British serviceman was killed by a chemical attack?
Ans: During the 1st World War
Q: When was the last time a British serviceman was killed by a terrorist gunman or bomber?
Ans: A lot more recently!
So what do we teach and practice at our CCS lectures? Yep, the dreaded chemical attack precautions!!! Why?
If you stick your fingers into the three pin socket on the wall, it will bl$$dy hurt (and probably burn a bit!)
You do not need to do it next year to check that it still hurts do you??
My point is that our lords and masters at the very top, have allowed these people to weald their big stick, and they are now an empire out of control. Just like our dear friends in all those nice hand brake mansions, and just like the Ped world. It is NOT my Flt Cdr, Sqn Cdr or even Stn Cdr who is deciding who goes on deployment to the desert etc. It is the Cpl PTI, the Cpl Rockape, the sacw scribbly blah.
The Air Farce has lost sight of it's primary role in life. That is to fly the aircraft and complete the mission. Not pander to the needs of a few fairly insignificant trades, who will use every means at their disposal to maintain their jobs in life!
Rant over, time for a lay down on my nice camp bed, under the stars. Where's that yellow and black handle??
Actually I think that the Rocks do us pretty well. They have a fairly robust sense of humour and know that most people's idea of a nice day is not b*ggering about in the gas chamber taking the damn mask off every few seconds, changing canisters etc - so they do give some quarter!
It would be nice to have a bit more training and a bit less testing though - as we used to.
It still creases me up when you get that "What are your actions on sensing a nuclear detonation" question - I get so tempted to say "Ring my Health and Safety representative and complain......"
But I did learn something last year. For the first time ever someone actually explained the correct grip to use on the SLP and how it improves accuracy. It worked as well!!
But sorry - I see no need for the vast majority of the jockstrapping branch's activity. Aircrew all have annual PMEs, those who also have JAA Class 1s will have an ECG even more often and aircrew over the age of 50 have ECGs twice a year regardless. There is absolutely no need for aircrew assessed so often to pedal that silly bike or to do a few press-ups and sit-ups. The RAF medics say you're fit enough, so does the CAA AME. That's all that should be needed - and if we stopped the RAFFT for aircrew whom the doctors say are fit, the RAF could save itself some money! Probably be one less 'push factor' for the seriously pi$$ed off as well......
It would be nice to have a bit more training and a bit less testing though - as we used to.
It still creases me up when you get that "What are your actions on sensing a nuclear detonation" question - I get so tempted to say "Ring my Health and Safety representative and complain......"
But I did learn something last year. For the first time ever someone actually explained the correct grip to use on the SLP and how it improves accuracy. It worked as well!!
But sorry - I see no need for the vast majority of the jockstrapping branch's activity. Aircrew all have annual PMEs, those who also have JAA Class 1s will have an ECG even more often and aircrew over the age of 50 have ECGs twice a year regardless. There is absolutely no need for aircrew assessed so often to pedal that silly bike or to do a few press-ups and sit-ups. The RAF medics say you're fit enough, so does the CAA AME. That's all that should be needed - and if we stopped the RAFFT for aircrew whom the doctors say are fit, the RAF could save itself some money! Probably be one less 'push factor' for the seriously pi$$ed off as well......
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Hmmmmmmmmm..... two points/questions.
Firstly, I must have been very lucky in my 37 years in the RAF, because I have only met 2 (and NO - I won't name them) obstructive adminers. The rest have been really helpful and constructive for me. Maybe that's because I used to drink with them in and out of the Mess (yes - I know - I'll drink with anyone). In my humble opinion, the likes of Admin Guru are few and far between, but - yes - I accept that I have not had to fight any major battles on that front lately! But I am allowed to express an "in my experience" opinion.
The second point/question is on CCS drills. I should like to know the logical explanation of why the Regt world is trying to insist that I do an annual CCS training session? Why shouldn't you do it you may ask? If I explain that I am a 57 year old FTRS (Home Commitment) reserve officer, who not only does not have a war role, but is not allowed to go out of area or even detach anywhere except St Mawgan for ATC Summer Camp flying, maybe you will see my point. Since it took over a year to replace my predecessor with me, I wonder how my point blank refusal to do this nonsense will be viewed when it gets up the line?????
Firstly, I must have been very lucky in my 37 years in the RAF, because I have only met 2 (and NO - I won't name them) obstructive adminers. The rest have been really helpful and constructive for me. Maybe that's because I used to drink with them in and out of the Mess (yes - I know - I'll drink with anyone). In my humble opinion, the likes of Admin Guru are few and far between, but - yes - I accept that I have not had to fight any major battles on that front lately! But I am allowed to express an "in my experience" opinion.
The second point/question is on CCS drills. I should like to know the logical explanation of why the Regt world is trying to insist that I do an annual CCS training session? Why shouldn't you do it you may ask? If I explain that I am a 57 year old FTRS (Home Commitment) reserve officer, who not only does not have a war role, but is not allowed to go out of area or even detach anywhere except St Mawgan for ATC Summer Camp flying, maybe you will see my point. Since it took over a year to replace my predecessor with me, I wonder how my point blank refusal to do this nonsense will be viewed when it gets up the line?????
Don't underestimate the toxic effects of stale tiddy oggies hurled over the St Mawgan boundary fence by Mebyon Kernow extremists!!
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Baz - hate to correct you , but the RAF is run by Sky Gods - never, ever forget that. I do concur (sorry) that some of our management are a little 'focused' upon what is trivia - but imagine what would happen if some of them got hold of the important stuff!!!
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Before having a dig at the Rocks who take you through CCS, ask them in a quiet moment what they actually think about the whole caboodle. Most of us agree with Beagle and long for the days of Taceval which PROVE beyond doubt whether the station as a whole is up to the task of getting the mission completed. You have to endure CCS once a year, try getting motivated to teach a captured (not captive) audience week in and week out. As an aside there are very few Rocks who stick to the laid down program and make you do the full monty of drills etc. I put it to you that for most lessons the content is repetitive and dull but the poor sod delivering it does his best to lighten it.
I would welcome any opinions please on the subject of rules regarding the wearing brevets, wings, and other insignia on the various types of uniforms. Are you for it or against? I am currently involved in a good old row and need to back up my opinions with facts.
Many thanks
CLEAR Ease springs
I would welcome any opinions please on the subject of rules regarding the wearing brevets, wings, and other insignia on the various types of uniforms. Are you for it or against? I am currently involved in a good old row and need to back up my opinions with facts.
Many thanks
CLEAR Ease springs
FOR: Being allowed to wear Saudi and Kuwaiti medals awarded to those who took part in the Gulf War. All Allied participants other than the Brits and Canadians are allowed to. However, I'm allowed to wear a Golden Jubilee medal - but nothing for serving at the time of the Silver Jubilee...
AGAINST: Anything more than a brevet-with-name, a squadron badge (wrongly called a 'crest' by most) and a national flag on No 14 Dress.
AGAINST: Anything more than a brevet-with-name, a squadron badge (wrongly called a 'crest' by most) and a national flag on No 14 Dress.
Gentleman Aviator
BEAGs
I am well impressed that someone other the undersigned knows that "crests" are really "badges". However, while I still have Pedantic Git Mode selected ON, I must take you to task for the solecism of all-inclusive "brevets". Brevets are only the single-winged variety (appropriately, as the word comes from the Old French brievet meaning "little letter"), the Master Race's two-winged variety being wings or (vide QRs) "The Flying Badge". Solesistic talk of "pilots' brevets" gets my dander up more than somewhat. .......................... Sorry, rant over, Pedantic Git Mode selected OFF!!
I am well impressed that someone other the undersigned knows that "crests" are really "badges". However, while I still have Pedantic Git Mode selected ON, I must take you to task for the solecism of all-inclusive "brevets". Brevets are only the single-winged variety (appropriately, as the word comes from the Old French brievet meaning "little letter"), the Master Race's two-winged variety being wings or (vide QRs) "The Flying Badge". Solesistic talk of "pilots' brevets" gets my dander up more than somewhat. .......................... Sorry, rant over, Pedantic Git Mode selected OFF!!
Thanks for that! 'This is to CERTIFY that in accordance with QR and ACI paragraph J727 () is qualified to wear the Royal Air Force Flying Badge with effect from ()' is indeed what it says on my Wings Certificate! NOT 'The RAF Pilots' Brevet'!
As a civvie, it amused me that something which has been worked so hard for and which is so valued amongst its recipients is called a "Flying Badge". Whilst from the above posts this seems technically correct the name is reminiscent of something brown, triangular and worn on a Cub Scout uniform
Mate - if the award of a 'badge' upon the successful completion of the toughest course I can imagine is good enough for the chaps over at Hereford, then calling my 'wings' a 'flying badge' is good enough for me!
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Jeeeeeeez! Been listening to this rant for 32 years, man and boy. Whats in this bit of cloth? Cant sell it, eat it or even wipe your bum with it so why make such a fuss. Had one for 27 years and dont feel any more worthy than the poor old sod who has to teach CCS every day.
Who really cares if the whole friggin service wears a badge/brevet as long as it makes them happy; for gawds sake there is little in the way morale boosting anyway. The touring staffers seem to want to change uniforms every 3 years, retro-chic shoulder flashes and round neck jumpers. Soon be back to hairy blues and stud collars.
Lets all have a trade/branch/specialisation badge and make the discussion a dead end.
No cost, moral boosting sense!
Anyway, thought this thread woz about leave??????
Who really cares if the whole friggin service wears a badge/brevet as long as it makes them happy; for gawds sake there is little in the way morale boosting anyway. The touring staffers seem to want to change uniforms every 3 years, retro-chic shoulder flashes and round neck jumpers. Soon be back to hairy blues and stud collars.
Lets all have a trade/branch/specialisation badge and make the discussion a dead end.
No cost, moral boosting sense!
Anyway, thought this thread woz about leave??????
Last edited by Klingon; 17th May 2002 at 18:53.
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BORING CAPTION!
What is the Leave not approved box for?
The Armed Forces Pay Review Body (an august group who embarrass the Government annually by stating in clear and justified terms precisely how much, and how we should be paid) complained way back in 1990 ish that there was no record of how much leave service personnel lost or were prevented from taking due to Service reasons.
They needed to know because we were negotiating a few extra percent and using the leave issue as part-justification. The ensueing questionnaire revealed years of lost leave from all and sundry but ws so hopelessly out of kilter from the official SAMA log the data could not be used. Hence, the leave denied box.
Use it. They may be stats but they have a purpose that is directly linked to our pay. Those tasked with vetting leave applications should not discourage applicants; they should simply inform the applicant (to the best of their management ability) of the negative decision, cross the 'no' box and pass the form on for processing. Those massaging the figures by pre-vetting applications are guilty in greater measure than they probably realise for a number of perceived problems that persist in the Service.
As for stats, it is a well studied and documented phenomenum that those in higher management will often measure performance in relatively simplistic numerical terms, (it is one way of keeping tabs on a large and complex organisation). But understanding which stats are looked at and why gives you a clear, official line of communication to the very top.
What is the Leave not approved box for?
The Armed Forces Pay Review Body (an august group who embarrass the Government annually by stating in clear and justified terms precisely how much, and how we should be paid) complained way back in 1990 ish that there was no record of how much leave service personnel lost or were prevented from taking due to Service reasons.
They needed to know because we were negotiating a few extra percent and using the leave issue as part-justification. The ensueing questionnaire revealed years of lost leave from all and sundry but ws so hopelessly out of kilter from the official SAMA log the data could not be used. Hence, the leave denied box.
Use it. They may be stats but they have a purpose that is directly linked to our pay. Those tasked with vetting leave applications should not discourage applicants; they should simply inform the applicant (to the best of their management ability) of the negative decision, cross the 'no' box and pass the form on for processing. Those massaging the figures by pre-vetting applications are guilty in greater measure than they probably realise for a number of perceived problems that persist in the Service.
As for stats, it is a well studied and documented phenomenum that those in higher management will often measure performance in relatively simplistic numerical terms, (it is one way of keeping tabs on a large and complex organisation). But understanding which stats are looked at and why gives you a clear, official line of communication to the very top.
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Thats more like it. The answer to any non-linear argument is Stats....Stats and more bloody Stats, keeps the bigwigs busy with spin development countermeasures.
How about sponsoring the notion of getting paid a fixed bonus for every day that leave was refused, bet that would get the beancounters attention!
How about sponsoring the notion of getting paid a fixed bonus for every day that leave was refused, bet that would get the beancounters attention!