Our Boys Behaving Badly
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'That's the fundamental issue here.'
...absolutely agree...but there are still some that think that ginger young 'uns from Paisley should be able to switch between 'kill' and 'etiquette' with ease...it ain't that simple.
Brit HMF Plc has done pretty well over the years in having to be ready to move between warfighting and peacekeeping - remember that Coco the Clown pendulum diagram hauled out by the Prince of Darkness?
There is a reason why they are not flying FJ or C130s (or even Chicken Legs) - they are good at engaging the enemy...and playing rugby. Very good at that.
G
...absolutely agree...but there are still some that think that ginger young 'uns from Paisley should be able to switch between 'kill' and 'etiquette' with ease...it ain't that simple.
Brit HMF Plc has done pretty well over the years in having to be ready to move between warfighting and peacekeeping - remember that Coco the Clown pendulum diagram hauled out by the Prince of Darkness?
There is a reason why they are not flying FJ or C130s (or even Chicken Legs) - they are good at engaging the enemy...and playing rugby. Very good at that.
G
..there are still some that think that ginger* young 'uns from Paisley should be able to switch between 'kill' and 'etiquette' with ease...it ain't that simple.
*I presume you are referring to hair colour, rather than using the vernacular of Cockney rhyming slang?
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beags,
Definitely hair colour - not Beers!!
Were you ever in Dhekelia long term?
Were you ever in Fally long term?
Were you ever in Holywood long term? (Yes - one x L)
Were you ever in Shorncliffe long term? (Before Her Idiotness Joanna fronted an invasion)
I would guess the answer to all of the above is no. Not much call for an AAR instructor at 18 Flt etc
Some young 'uns cannot be let off of the lead for more 1 min 30s before they are in trouble. By all accounts, back to thread, Fijians can be quite good.
G
Definitely hair colour - not Beers!!
Were you ever in Dhekelia long term?
Were you ever in Fally long term?
Were you ever in Holywood long term? (Yes - one x L)
Were you ever in Shorncliffe long term? (Before Her Idiotness Joanna fronted an invasion)
I would guess the answer to all of the above is no. Not much call for an AAR instructor at 18 Flt etc
Some young 'uns cannot be let off of the lead for more 1 min 30s before they are in trouble. By all accounts, back to thread, Fijians can be quite good.
G
Last edited by gijoe; 9th Sep 2013 at 14:04.
MJ and GiJoe....you guys must get a sense of humor......relax will you?
MJ....there was a cute wee Orange thing at the end of the sentence wasn't there.....you cannot be that slow as to not grasped what that meant can you?
GiJoe....that was tongue in cheek but if you think about it for a moment it is true....no photographs and none of this would have come to be public knowledge and thus no adverse publicity for the Marine Corps......and thus it could have been dealt with far less concern to public appearances.
You too need to fully digest what is being said.
Subtlety must not be something you deal with very often.
MJ....there was a cute wee Orange thing at the end of the sentence wasn't there.....you cannot be that slow as to not grasped what that meant can you?
GiJoe....that was tongue in cheek but if you think about it for a moment it is true....no photographs and none of this would have come to be public knowledge and thus no adverse publicity for the Marine Corps......and thus it could have been dealt with far less concern to public appearances.
You too need to fully digest what is being said.
Subtlety must not be something you deal with very often.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'You too need to fully digest what is being said.'
Thanks for the advice...I think
There is nothing subtle about lagging on a dead Afghan - TB or not TB - that is the question? Guess you haven't been there.
... But I'll work harder on my soft skills, and all of my other things.
'Should have worked harder at school' all of the light blue said...many boring times...trotted out like a rehearsed line issued at IOT.
I stopped after the postgrad bit - couldn't get any more letters after my name on my card. Anyway...
____________________________
G
Thanks for the advice...I think
There is nothing subtle about lagging on a dead Afghan - TB or not TB - that is the question? Guess you haven't been there.
... But I'll work harder on my soft skills, and all of my other things.
'Should have worked harder at school' all of the light blue said...many boring times...trotted out like a rehearsed line issued at IOT.
I stopped after the postgrad bit - couldn't get any more letters after my name on my card. Anyway...
____________________________
G
Last edited by gijoe; 9th Sep 2013 at 14:48.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Westerham, Kent
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah well, you can't rely on our boys to behave all the time! Or can you?
More Army boys behaving badly
More Army boys behaving badly
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Torquay, England
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wheww,
I have finally read through this thread and it looks like I am the only person that is in step.
My thoughts are that our service personnel are at all times representing Queen and country, especially when abroad.
We are never going to know the truth and frankly I don't much care as to me this all started out as talk... Hot air and no doubt alcohol fuelled talk.
To me there is no excuse for this violence and if folks don't like being called names then lock yourselves up in the kitchen. Those soldiers were showing the flag and they let themselves down, they let their regiment down and they behaved like thugs. When abroad we should be on our best behaviour and at all times remember who we are and what we are representing!!
Some folks are saying no further disciplinary action can be taken against these squaddies when they return to the UK??
Has military law changed that much? In the Navy we had that catch all charge of conduct prejudicial to good order and Naval discipline and as far as I am aware that just about encompassed anything and everything.
I had occassion to visit South Africa during the apartheid period and out of a ships company of 500, we had just one coloured sailor. This person had to use a separate gangway to go ashore and could not mix or socialise with his messmates whilst ashore.. His choice to go ashore but once in that country, he had to abide by the civilian law and no crying to the British Embassy if he broke any South African laws, he went ashore and wore his sailor's uniform with pride.
Should those soldiers be tried in America??
America appears to treat the courts of other countries with utter contempt when it comes to any offenders being charged with serious criminal acts, or serious motoring offences. They will usually ship offender back home to be tried??? My thoughts are what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
I have finally read through this thread and it looks like I am the only person that is in step.
My thoughts are that our service personnel are at all times representing Queen and country, especially when abroad.
We are never going to know the truth and frankly I don't much care as to me this all started out as talk... Hot air and no doubt alcohol fuelled talk.
To me there is no excuse for this violence and if folks don't like being called names then lock yourselves up in the kitchen. Those soldiers were showing the flag and they let themselves down, they let their regiment down and they behaved like thugs. When abroad we should be on our best behaviour and at all times remember who we are and what we are representing!!
Some folks are saying no further disciplinary action can be taken against these squaddies when they return to the UK??
Has military law changed that much? In the Navy we had that catch all charge of conduct prejudicial to good order and Naval discipline and as far as I am aware that just about encompassed anything and everything.
I had occassion to visit South Africa during the apartheid period and out of a ships company of 500, we had just one coloured sailor. This person had to use a separate gangway to go ashore and could not mix or socialise with his messmates whilst ashore.. His choice to go ashore but once in that country, he had to abide by the civilian law and no crying to the British Embassy if he broke any South African laws, he went ashore and wore his sailor's uniform with pride.
Should those soldiers be tried in America??
America appears to treat the courts of other countries with utter contempt when it comes to any offenders being charged with serious criminal acts, or serious motoring offences. They will usually ship offender back home to be tried??? My thoughts are what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Oh, dear; you'll upset a lot of people - but not me'
Glad you got it - it was probably too subtle for others...myself included as I need to work harder on it...been told so by some bloke in the US.
Anyway, I'm off to read about more digusting Brit soldier behaviour in Germany in the Wail.
G
Glad you got it - it was probably too subtle for others...myself included as I need to work harder on it...been told so by some bloke in the US.
Anyway, I'm off to read about more digusting Brit soldier behaviour in Germany in the Wail.
G
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Torquay, England
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by West Coast
Glojo
Can you provide some examples specific to your last paragraph?
Can you provide some examples specific to your last paragraph?
Not a problem and the one that really sticks in our mind was the case of a US airman that killed a young child in Cornwall. At the time of the offence he was drunk and driving a motor vehicle.
This man was flown home to the USA and never stood trial in a British court!! This happened many moons ago when there were members of the US armed forces stationed at RAF St Mawgan.
Apologises if my comment has caused offence but at the time this was a very emotive issue and I guess it still something that causes a deal of annoyance.
Best wishes
John
I think that the accused should always stand trial in the country where the alleged crime was committed. If you break a country's laws you should face that country's justice system.
It's a difficult one Courtney. I for one would not wish to see any UK personnel tried in a brace of different countries. For those serving it would be even more perplexing if the crime had anything to do with their service. I don't think being tried in an Afghan court would be fun.
I have always found it perplexing that a UK service spouse living in Germany can (and have) been tried by courts martial. But I sense a balance has had to be stuck along the line and I guess this is why we have MoUs for this kind of thing.
I have always found it perplexing that a UK service spouse living in Germany can (and have) been tried by courts martial. But I sense a balance has had to be stuck along the line and I guess this is why we have MoUs for this kind of thing.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My experience is that America treats EVERYTHING outside of America with contempt...not just the courts.
Or maybe I am being paranoid?
Must go...NSA might be sniffing this.
I'm gone.
G
Or maybe I am being paranoid?
Must go...NSA might be sniffing this.
I'm gone.
G
Last edited by gijoe; 10th Sep 2013 at 21:16.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK
Age: 56
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with Courtney on that. Whatever the law of the land where the crime is committed should stand. That should apply in equal measure to all, but how often do we see this type of thing end up in a game of you play ball with us and we'll ram the bat up your A**.
Glojo
Was this case covered by an existing status of forces (or whatever the current term is) agreement or was the service member spirited out of the country before the local justice system could address the situation? A SOFA requires agreement of the host country to allow removal of the service member, it's not a one way street.
Having come from the US Marines, and one of our main overseas is in Japan, I've read of plenty of instances where US service members are rotting in their prisons, rightfully so. Certain acts were covered by SOFA, others required adjudication in local courts.
Courtney
Complete agreement as long as the infraction wasn't a part of the mission. Hate to have to stand trial in a kangaroo court for some trumped up charge.
Was this case covered by an existing status of forces (or whatever the current term is) agreement or was the service member spirited out of the country before the local justice system could address the situation? A SOFA requires agreement of the host country to allow removal of the service member, it's not a one way street.
Having come from the US Marines, and one of our main overseas is in Japan, I've read of plenty of instances where US service members are rotting in their prisons, rightfully so. Certain acts were covered by SOFA, others required adjudication in local courts.
Courtney
Complete agreement as long as the infraction wasn't a part of the mission. Hate to have to stand trial in a kangaroo court for some trumped up charge.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: by the Great Salt Lake, USA
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Courtney Mil
I think that the accused should always stand trial in the country where the alleged crime was committed. If you break a country's laws you should face that country's justice system.
Originally Posted by OutlawPete
Agree with Courtney on that. Whatever the law of the land where the crime is committed should stand. That should apply in equal measure to all, but how often do we see this type of thing end up in a game of you play ball with us and we'll ram the bat up your A**.
And if she decides to have a little affair with anyone she isn't married to while in Saudi, you two are fine with her being arrested, tried, and executed for adultery?
Really?
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK
Age: 56
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by GreenKnight121:8042349
So you two are perfectly fine with a British servicewoman who drives a UK military vehicle in Saudi Arabia being arrested, tired, and imprisoned for violating the Saudi law banning women from driving?
And if she decides to have a little affair with anyone she isn't married to while in Saudi, you two are fine with her being arrested, tried, and executed for adultery?
Really?
And if she decides to have a little affair with anyone she isn't married to while in Saudi, you two are fine with her being arrested, tried, and executed for adultery?
Really?
Personally, I would never put anyone in that position in the first place. Much as in the same way that when detached to the US we were cautious about taking under 21 in case they innocently fell foul of the draconian drinking laws that said you have to be over 21 to consume beer.
Do you think it's acceptable to ride roughshod over the laws of a country you happen to be a guest in just because they don't meet with the approval of your own administration?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
I can't remember for sure but didn't the standing orders for those deployed to Saudi specifically mention that women were not allowed to drive off-base, neither military vehicles nor 'white fleet'?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: oxford
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't remember for sure but didn't the standing orders for those deployed to Saudi specifically mention that women were not allowed to drive off-base, neither military vehicles nor 'white fleet'?
Last edited by lj101; 11th Sep 2013 at 09:43.