In Scotland's Defence

[lj101]

Rab

That link would be to an Aberdeen rag? Well they would say that wouldn't they;

More local views here;

Debate | Shetland News

[ORAC]

How about extending the sovereign UK territory argument to our Air Bases or do we then encounter problems with Airspace considerations ?

Well it worked with the SBAs in Cyprus.

[melmothtw]

Funny how devolutionists always want devolution down to their level but never any lower.

The same can be said for those who want the UK out of Europe - they're happy for the UK to have 'independence', but not for its constituent nations.

[Roland Pulfrew]

they're happy for the UK to have 'independence', but not for its constituent nations.

Au contraire Mel. I would vote to leave Europe (I personally think it's the right thing to do) and if the Scots want to vote to leave the UK then that is their decision (I personally don't think that is the right thing to do). I can't see why that viewpoint is mutually exclusive or illogical.

I have to say though that there seems to be an element in Government that must be out to persuade the Scots to vote for independence though; why else would the SBA issue be out in the Press? How many UK parliament seats do Labour and Lib Dems have in Scotland at present?

[melmothtw]

Au contraire Mel. I would vote to leave Europe (I personally think it's the right thing to do) and if the Scots want to vote to leave the UK then that is their decision (I personally don't think that is the right thing to do). I can't see why that viewpoint is mutually exclusive or illogical.

Hi Roland,

I agree that your viewpoint is neither mutually exclusive nor illogical, but the fact is that it is not a viewpoint shared by most of the Euro-sceptic community. The Tories and UKIP are both for the UK leaving Europe, but both fought tooth and nail against devolution for Scotland and Wales.

I can see why Fox3 and other UK-centrics should talk up the prospects of Shetland seceeding from Scotland, because that's what larger and overbearing countries do to their smaller neighbours when faced with calls for independence. A case in point is Russia's relationship with Georgia, and it manipulation of the situation with Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

[rab-k]

How about extending the sovereign UK territory argument to our Air Bases or do we then encounter problems with Airspace considerations ?

Ah, I see the colonial mindset is not restricted to those wearing out the carpets of Whitehall.


"our Air Bases" ?


Last time I drove past an RAF base, of which there will soon be a single example of the type left in Scotland, the sign simply said "Royal Air Force Station".

Am I mistaken, or do such facilities belong to England and are merely disguised as something else?

[Fareastdriver]

rab-k

Well picked up.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Ah, I see the colonial mindset is not restricted to

Well of course, at present, the statement "our air bases" is technically correct. They are all our air bases, they "belong" to all of us British. The OP doesn't state "our" as in "English", only the paranoid might think otherwise.

[rab-k]

I think Roland that the context in which the phrase "our Air Bases" appears is quite clear.

You needn't suffer from paranoia to note it, just selective myopia not to.

[Kluseau]

Originally Posted by rab-k

I think Roland that the context in which the phrase "our Air Bases" appears is quite clear.

You needn't suffer from paranoia to note it, just selective myopia not to.

I'm not sure I take any offence at the use of the term. After all, the question of how what is currently "ours" (as in the UK's) should be divided if indendence goes ahead is at the very core of the debate.

Rather more open to challenge is the use of the term "air bases" in the plural. Once Leuchars closes there will only be one place worthy of that description in Scotland.

[CoffmanStarter]

Our Air Bases = OUR as in the UNITED Kingdom ... nothing more/less !

[rab-k]

Coffman, is this current UK or rUK, as in Kingdom of England & N.Ireland?

"the sovereign UK territory argument" in the context of today's news item was the issue with regard to use of the term "our Air Bases".

But let us not split hairs. Seems No. 10 has knocked the idea on the head, for the time being...

[CoffmanStarter]

No mate ... I passionately believe in the collective strength of the UK as it stands ... a very sad day if Scotland were to leave the Union IMHO

Coff.

[TomJoad]

Originally Posted by CoffmanStarter

No mate ... I passionately believe in the collective strength of the UK as it stands ... a very sad day if Scotland were to leave the Union IMHO

Coff.

Coffman why do you think that, what does Scotland bring to the UK, by that I mean of course what is the benefit of Scotland to the UK? Genuinely interested to hear your thoughts.

[cuefaye]

I passionately believe in the collective strength of the UK as it stands ... a
very sad day if Scotland were to leave the Union IMHO

I agree.

TomJoad,

I don't understand what you mean by 'what does Scotland bring to the UK' - they are part of it, as are the others .

I also go along with Coff: stronger together, weaker apart, in so many respects.

And if you saw that Scottish First Minister's behaviour at Wimbledon, what a toad!!

Hopefully the great people of Scotland will tell him so.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

TomJoad. The, effectively, "what's in it for the UK" question can give a very narrow and bottom line balance sheet answer. It could be used for any other part of the UK to create a very divisive and, perhaps, corrosive atmosphere. The same question might be asked of the Scousers/Woolybacks, Geordies, Brummies and Janners. It's shared history, pride in contribution to combatting past hard times and past contributions to placing these small isles and relatively tiny population so far up the World Nations league.

Are the past sacrifices of Jock Regiments so easily forgotten? let alone those lads who served and still serve in English Units and the British Armed Forces in general.

[CoffmanStarter]

Tom old chap ... I have no highfalutin reasons or convincing economic/political arguments to underpin my personal belief that the retention of the Union is a collectively "good thing" for all of us ... that is Scotland, Wales, NI and England.

I happen to believe the Union isn't "Broken" from anyone's perspective ... so if it ain't broken don't bu99er about with it.

I'm a simple soul ... but fiercely proud of the United Kingdom (as is) and all it stands for

Best ...

Coff.

[OutlawPete]

No mate ... I passionately believe in the collective strength of the UK as it stands ... a very sad day if Scotland were to leave the Union IMHO

Coff.

Agree fully with that, Coff. Regardless of what we think we bring individually to the Union, collectively we are always stronger. I have always believed that Scotland could do just fine independently but that's not a good enough reason for me. And although there have been some good examples of local government from Holyrood, I still don't trust Salmond. Intelligent politician maybe but also a buffoon and his antics on Sunday proved that. I wonder what he thought of Andy crediting the victory as a British Champion (well done fella!).

Courtney touched on something a few posts ago relating to the potential of a weak chink in defences in the North and given that it is fairly clear the SNP's £2.5 B won't go very far, I happen to agree, he has a very strong point. Sure there are fewer air bases in Scotland (there are fewer all over the UK) but we still have the flexibility to move resources to areas when we deem it necessary, when we are in the Union.

Interesting point about SBA's as the SNP had even proposed a similar idea a while back themselves...

[TomJoad]

Originally Posted by CoffmanStarter

Tom old chap ... I have no highfalutin reasons or convincing economic/political arguments to underpin my personal belief that the retention of the Union is a collectively "good thing" for all of us ... that is Scotland, Wales, NI and England.

I happen to believe the Union isn't "Broken" from anyone's perspective ... so if it ain't broken don't bu99er about with it.

I'm a simple sole ... but fiercely proud of the United Kingdom (as is) and all it stands for

Best ...

Coff.

Thanks for your honest answer Coffman. While I was hoping for for something. carrying more substance or 'high falutin' as you put it, I respect your honesty.

Cheers fella,

Tom Joad

[Kluseau]

More than half way through the day, and no new posts: has the debate subsided into happy harmony? Aye, right...

A glimpse of the quality (or not) of some of the type of stuff being thrown up by the wider debate can be had by following the rather fine spoof Twitter feed of Alistair Darling @A_DarlingMP (emphatically NOT the real Alistair Darling). Some of this account's offerings from yesterday:

Alistair Darling‏@A_DarlingMP4h
Wireless is trending. Will we get BBC services on the wireless in a separate Scotland? All evidence points to no. Don't vote YES. #indyref

Alistair Darling‏@A_DarlingMP23h
Facebook is trending. Will we be pushed into the dark ages of MySpace and Bebo in a separate, online Scotland? Don't vote YES. #indyref

Alistair Darling‏@A_DarlingMP23h
Its T in the Park this weekend. Alex Salmond has simply not said whether the event will still happen after separation. Uncertainty. #indyref

@A_DarlingMP My shoes are a UK size 9. What size will they.......no, will I still have shoes in an #indy Scotland? should I ask @theSNP ? Retweeted by Alistair Darling

Thing is, though this is parody, it's not so far beyond the quality of some of what really is coming out of the "No" camp.