Woolwich
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Is this what we've come to? Is this the "not my job guv" or "where's my help, I'm totally pathetic" culture we've got into?
And yes, I think it can be added to a growing list of examples of the anonymous "they" being responsible for everything.
Very sad news, RIP.
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Lets not have trial by forum. I would imagine the attack would have been over fairly quickly, we don't know where the police were and it does look like as eye witnesses have said that there was a car crash and the two perpetrators were seen to be going to the aid of a man who was injured. Not so as it turned out obviously but 'I would have done this ' etc is fine in hindsight.
You don't expect a man to be hacked to death in the street in London, you would think something else was happening regardless of what you might think you would have done.
You don't expect a man to be hacked to death in the street in London, you would think something else was happening regardless of what you might think you would have done.
I've just listened to the radio interview on here Shocking Account of Woolwich Attack | LBC
WARNING - it's pretty raw but it does mention other Police standing by and waiting for Armed Response. It also mentions people standing by and filimng it. I feel sorry for "James" giving the report, he sounds pretty shaken. He will also have to live with the thought of whether he could have done something to help and that is why I would rather do something than not try at all - better do something in a split second than suffer a lifetime of torture wishing you had done it.
On the 10 o'clock news I saw one woman on TV walk nonchalently past one of the murderers as if nothing was happening! The BBC blanked out her face; why? However, a massive well-done to the woman you can see trying to do something whilst the murderers were still at large - sadly though it looks like the victim had already died. Also, "James" did the very best he could by calling for the Police as soon as he could.
This tragic incident has certainly polarised my view that if confronted with such an attrocity I will do my utmost to stop it. I hope the radio interview convinces others too.
LJ
WARNING - it's pretty raw but it does mention other Police standing by and waiting for Armed Response. It also mentions people standing by and filimng it. I feel sorry for "James" giving the report, he sounds pretty shaken. He will also have to live with the thought of whether he could have done something to help and that is why I would rather do something than not try at all - better do something in a split second than suffer a lifetime of torture wishing you had done it.
On the 10 o'clock news I saw one woman on TV walk nonchalently past one of the murderers as if nothing was happening! The BBC blanked out her face; why? However, a massive well-done to the woman you can see trying to do something whilst the murderers were still at large - sadly though it looks like the victim had already died. Also, "James" did the very best he could by calling for the Police as soon as he could.
This tragic incident has certainly polarised my view that if confronted with such an attrocity I will do my utmost to stop it. I hope the radio interview convinces others too.
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 22nd May 2013 at 22:16.
I've read and re read this thread. Maybe I'm a bit long in the tooth, maybe I've got some sort of "chip" on my shoulder, but. When my Grandad was giving his life to make sure that our country was a decent law abiding democracy, I'm sure he never would have envisioned what we are now seeing. The police? Well, for the past 10 years or so the police service has become, politicised, eurosised and neutered by successive governments. The root cause of this problem is the swathes of Muslim "communities", imposed on our cities. It gives the radicals a place to hide, the mosques provide a focal point for training and subversion. Lets face it, all tactics we would use against our own perceived enemies.
Why though have successive governments ignored warnings on this ? Why will we have to listen to various politicians and the Muslim League of UK telling us its ok, it's only two people ? I know this is another rant on the same thread but I believe the biggest problem we have in this country these days is that we are scared of expressing our opinions. Well here is where you would expect that famous quote from Edmund Burke. Something like ‘All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.’ Not sure of the exact quote, I looked it up. Here’s what I found: ‘When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. We need to wake up and sort all this PC rubbish out, or get ready for Sharia law. Sorry if it offends but what we are witnessing in this country today is an outrage, perpetrated by people who have been given shelter and safety by this country, that's the thanks you get for all that.
Smudge
Why though have successive governments ignored warnings on this ? Why will we have to listen to various politicians and the Muslim League of UK telling us its ok, it's only two people ? I know this is another rant on the same thread but I believe the biggest problem we have in this country these days is that we are scared of expressing our opinions. Well here is where you would expect that famous quote from Edmund Burke. Something like ‘All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.’ Not sure of the exact quote, I looked it up. Here’s what I found: ‘When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. We need to wake up and sort all this PC rubbish out, or get ready for Sharia law. Sorry if it offends but what we are witnessing in this country today is an outrage, perpetrated by people who have been given shelter and safety by this country, that's the thanks you get for all that.
Smudge
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Leon, while personally endorsing your views, we don't live in a society that in general would get involved. Not through cowardice or lack of moral compass but through a general conception that
a. someone will deal with it and
b. an underlying fear that if they do get involved they may have questions to answer in court.
A good friend of mine broke a boy's nose when he heard a commotion outside of his house. Turns out it was just a boy and his girlfiend larking around. Boy's parents tried to nail him to the wall. He now has GBH on his record and was lucky not to go to jail.
I think that most people think twice these days before 'getting involved.'
a. someone will deal with it and
b. an underlying fear that if they do get involved they may have questions to answer in court.
A good friend of mine broke a boy's nose when he heard a commotion outside of his house. Turns out it was just a boy and his girlfiend larking around. Boy's parents tried to nail him to the wall. He now has GBH on his record and was lucky not to go to jail.
I think that most people think twice these days before 'getting involved.'
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Why though have successive governments ignored warnings on this ? Why will we have to listen to various politicians and the Muslim League of UK telling us its ok, it's only two people ? I know this is another rant on the same thread but I believe the biggest problem we have in this country these days is that we are scared of expressing our opinions.
Thing, I am also in agreement with your last thoughts - you can't even teach Boy Scouts first aid anymore without elf&safety sticking their oar in. No wonder people don't have any 'nouse' anymore; it has been drummed out of them by successive sh!te Govt and Quango policy!
where's my bloody time machine!
LJ
where's my bloody time machine!LJ
Thing, I agree and to quote Stephen Fry on religion...
There is one fundamental problem - Religion always will and always has caused more wars, deaths and murders than anything else...
...now where is my Prof Dorkins book!
There is one fundamental problem - Religion always will and always has caused more wars, deaths and murders than anything else...
...now where is my Prof Dorkins book!
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It also mentions people standing by and filimng it
An American friend of mine witnessed an air crash and carried on shooting photos at a show, he was berated by the people standing nearby unbeknown to them that he was an aircraft engineer and realised the photos he was taking could help the investigators determine what happened, he promptly handed the images in after the show ended.
. One of the only purveyor of sense in this bonkers world.
Thing
I absolutely agree with what you say. What I was trying to suggest was that there are organisations, including our own government, who use the racist charge against anyone who dares to suggest that it's more than just a couple of blokes doing this stuff. The fact is that the same organisations have created the problem by getting involved in foreign "adventures" of dubious pedigree. In the past, such action has rarely led to the evil we have seen today. But it seems we are already witnessing the reaction of the right wing nutters on the streets tonight. Perhaps modern politicians should factor this sort of thing into their foreign policy in future.
What I do know is that I am very sad that, once again, someone has lost their life in a violent manner to satiate someone's desire to promote one religion over another. And that it is happening in our capital city, in broad daylight and seemingly unhindered for at least 20 minutes. I'm sorry if what I think offends you in any way, I certainly mean no offence to Muslims, Jews or any other religion (I have many friends who belong to all of these religions) and would not label a whole social group by the action of a few people but surely what we have seen today can only be described as barbarity. And as such can only be vilified for what it is.
Smudge
I absolutely agree with what you say. What I was trying to suggest was that there are organisations, including our own government, who use the racist charge against anyone who dares to suggest that it's more than just a couple of blokes doing this stuff. The fact is that the same organisations have created the problem by getting involved in foreign "adventures" of dubious pedigree. In the past, such action has rarely led to the evil we have seen today. But it seems we are already witnessing the reaction of the right wing nutters on the streets tonight. Perhaps modern politicians should factor this sort of thing into their foreign policy in future.
What I do know is that I am very sad that, once again, someone has lost their life in a violent manner to satiate someone's desire to promote one religion over another. And that it is happening in our capital city, in broad daylight and seemingly unhindered for at least 20 minutes. I'm sorry if what I think offends you in any way, I certainly mean no offence to Muslims, Jews or any other religion (I have many friends who belong to all of these religions) and would not label a whole social group by the action of a few people but surely what we have seen today can only be described as barbarity. And as such can only be vilified for what it is.
Smudge
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An American friend of mine witnessed an air crash and carried on shooting photos at a show
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Smuj
I'm sure that the major purpose of attacks like these is to cause conflict between religions. I have to say at this point that I'm a confirmed died in the wool atheist so I can, or at least I hope I can be impartial. Whatever they have done in the 'name of Islam' I sincerely hope that we as a society can stay cool and not react in any way to what is merely ( and I don't belittle what happened this evening) provocation. I hear at this point that they may have been an attack on a mosque. Well done dickheads, just what they want.
I'm sure that the major purpose of attacks like these is to cause conflict between religions. I have to say at this point that I'm a confirmed died in the wool atheist so I can, or at least I hope I can be impartial. Whatever they have done in the 'name of Islam' I sincerely hope that we as a society can stay cool and not react in any way to what is merely ( and I don't belittle what happened this evening) provocation. I hear at this point that they may have been an attack on a mosque. Well done dickheads, just what they want.
Last edited by thing; 22nd May 2013 at 23:20.
Thing
Like you, I have no religion other than no religion. And I second your thoughts re provocation, which it looks like, has been successful this evening. Maybe I need to find a yellow teapot and a wee dram or two and lie down for a while. Stay happy.
Smudge
Like you, I have no religion other than no religion. And I second your thoughts re provocation, which it looks like, has been successful this evening. Maybe I need to find a yellow teapot and a wee dram or two and lie down for a while. Stay happy.
Smudge
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Grrrrrrr I cannot believe that ITV showed the footage of the body lying in the street and the murderers talking to the cameras...
That's given them exactly what they wanted.
That's given them exactly what they wanted.
Last edited by NutLoose; 22nd May 2013 at 23:37.
WARNING - it's pretty raw but it does mention other Police standing by and waiting for Armed Response.
Guns on the other hand work really good against such weapons.
Big Question for you who embrace "Unarmed Police"....would it have saved a life in this case if the Plod had been armed with guns?