Woolwich
[email protected],
Well, it worked in 1939 - eventually.
You say you're mil. Well your job is/was to smite the enemies of your country.
The IRA are the enemies of my country and the SAS took them out in Gib
Violent Islamists are the enemies of my country and I am happy to do whatever it takes to make them stop.
This is clearly a very emotive issue but a knee-jerk revenge policy hasn't worked hundreds of times in the past, all around the world, and it won't work here and now.
You say you're mil. Well your job is/was to smite the enemies of your country.
The IRA are the enemies of my country and the SAS took them out in Gib
Violent Islamists are the enemies of my country and I am happy to do whatever it takes to make them stop.
5 forward 6 back #236
Sorry, can't agree with your logic on that. Had we not had a policy of letting in anyone who fancied coming here for the past 30 years, then we would not have the confliction of races that we are beginning to see now. Do you really believe that because people like yourself can empathise with immigrants, that that will stop the reaction of the likes of EDL when something like Lee Rigby's murder happens ? I believe that governments, of blue and red tastes, have used our country as an experiment in "ethnic blending". Unfortunately it didn't work, it's like trying to mix oil and water. And now the politicians are out of their depth in how to deal with it all. They will of course thrash around, blame each other, then other religions and eventually you will find that, Mr bog standard Englishman was to blame all along. At 60 I suppose I can describe myself as a "bit long in the tooth" (and cynical) but it does give me the right to suggest that I have been around for long enough to see what's going on.
I have no hatred of foreigners, Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhists or even Druids. I have a real dislike of the people who created this boiling cesspit of trouble that our country is becoming. But then, you get what you vote for I suppose.
Smudge
Sorry, can't agree with your logic on that. Had we not had a policy of letting in anyone who fancied coming here for the past 30 years, then we would not have the confliction of races that we are beginning to see now. Do you really believe that because people like yourself can empathise with immigrants, that that will stop the reaction of the likes of EDL when something like Lee Rigby's murder happens ? I believe that governments, of blue and red tastes, have used our country as an experiment in "ethnic blending". Unfortunately it didn't work, it's like trying to mix oil and water. And now the politicians are out of their depth in how to deal with it all. They will of course thrash around, blame each other, then other religions and eventually you will find that, Mr bog standard Englishman was to blame all along. At 60 I suppose I can describe myself as a "bit long in the tooth" (and cynical) but it does give me the right to suggest that I have been around for long enough to see what's going on.
I have no hatred of foreigners, Sikhs, Muslims, Buddhists or even Druids. I have a real dislike of the people who created this boiling cesspit of trouble that our country is becoming. But then, you get what you vote for I suppose.
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 26th May 2013 at 20:43.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South of England
Age: 74
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
4 Posts
Deep sadness for Riggers and his family and his Regiment - what an appalling event.
I agree with most posters on this thread that our tax shouldn't be spent through the NHS or Social Services (Job Seekers, tax relief, housing benefit etc etc) on violent twxts who are just taking the pxss. It should be (and largely is) spent to help the many who through no fault of their own are stuck without a job and need help. That's why we set up the welfare state - to help people who need help.
But I can't understand why anyone should think these 2 (or more?) ignorant, uneducated twxts could possibly represent the Muslim faith. I have no axe to grind because I am a Roman Catholic.
They are individuals and they are personally responsible for their own barbaric actions - Allah didn't tell them to kill this poor man - they did it because they wanted to.
I hate the crime; I hate the toxxers who committed it but I can't hate Islam because from my experience with people it is a tolerant and peaceful religion.
Sadly most muslim countries are ruled by corrupt, power seeking, sects who defile the true nature of Islam.
I could go on but I've just run out of steam!
Rgds SOS
I agree with most posters on this thread that our tax shouldn't be spent through the NHS or Social Services (Job Seekers, tax relief, housing benefit etc etc) on violent twxts who are just taking the pxss. It should be (and largely is) spent to help the many who through no fault of their own are stuck without a job and need help. That's why we set up the welfare state - to help people who need help.
But I can't understand why anyone should think these 2 (or more?) ignorant, uneducated twxts could possibly represent the Muslim faith. I have no axe to grind because I am a Roman Catholic.
They are individuals and they are personally responsible for their own barbaric actions - Allah didn't tell them to kill this poor man - they did it because they wanted to.
I hate the crime; I hate the toxxers who committed it but I can't hate Islam because from my experience with people it is a tolerant and peaceful religion.
Sadly most muslim countries are ruled by corrupt, power seeking, sects who defile the true nature of Islam.
I could go on but I've just run out of steam!
Rgds SOS
Last edited by SOSL; 26th May 2013 at 21:44.
Smudge,
Fundamentally, I don't believe that the fact that either of the assailants' parents were born overseas makes much of a difference; they had their own reasons to convert to Islam, and it's the influence of that particular brand of Islam that most of the blame lies with.
Whether they were 2nd or 4rd generation Britons doesn't really change things. A 25th-generation Brit could choose to convert to Islam and be corrupted too.
Fundamentally, I don't believe that the fact that either of the assailants' parents were born overseas makes much of a difference; they had their own reasons to convert to Islam, and it's the influence of that particular brand of Islam that most of the blame lies with.
Whether they were 2nd or 4rd generation Britons doesn't really change things. A 25th-generation Brit could choose to convert to Islam and be corrupted too.
5/6
Sure, I accept all you say. I do not blame people, or religions. I just blame the people who tried to create the mess we have become. Politicians I believe they call themselves. One thing for certain, I will, and have, put my life on the line for anyone to have an opinion on anything they feel they need to say. I will never believe that I have the monopoly on wisdom, that's why I am a student of PPRUNE Military forum, a font of great wisdom.
Sure, I accept all you say. I do not blame people, or religions. I just blame the people who tried to create the mess we have become. Politicians I believe they call themselves. One thing for certain, I will, and have, put my life on the line for anyone to have an opinion on anything they feel they need to say. I will never believe that I have the monopoly on wisdom, that's why I am a student of PPRUNE Military forum, a font of great wisdom.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Deep sadness for Riggers and his family and his Regiment - what an appalling event.
I agree with most posters on this thread that our tax shouldn't be spent through the NHS or Social Services (Job Seekers, tax relief, housing benefit etc etc) on violent twxts who are just taking the pxss. It should be (and largely is) spent to help the many who through no fault of their own are stuck without a job and need help. That's why we set up the welfare state - to help people who need help.
But I can't understand why anyone should think these 2 (or more?) ignorant, uneducated twxts could possibly represent the Muslim faith. I have no axe to grind because I am a Roman Catholic.
They are individuals and they are personally responsible for their own barbaric actions - Allah didn't tell them to kill this poor man - they did it because they wanted to.
I hate the crime; I hate the toxxers who committed it but I can't hate Islam because from my experience with people it is a tolerant and peaceful religion.
Sadly most muslim countries are ruled by corrupt, power seeking, sects who defile the true nature of Islam>
I could go on but I've just run out of steam!
Rgds SOS
I agree with most posters on this thread that our tax shouldn't be spent through the NHS or Social Services (Job Seekers, tax relief, housing benefit etc etc) on violent twxts who are just taking the pxss. It should be (and largely is) spent to help the many who through no fault of their own are stuck without a job and need help. That's why we set up the welfare state - to help people who need help.
But I can't understand why anyone should think these 2 (or more?) ignorant, uneducated twxts could possibly represent the Muslim faith. I have no axe to grind because I am a Roman Catholic.
They are individuals and they are personally responsible for their own barbaric actions - Allah didn't tell them to kill this poor man - they did it because they wanted to.
I hate the crime; I hate the toxxers who committed it but I can't hate Islam because from my experience with people it is a tolerant and peaceful religion.
Sadly most muslim countries are ruled by corrupt, power seeking, sects who defile the true nature of Islam>
I could go on but I've just run out of steam!
Rgds SOS
SOSL I agree with you entirely the only trouble is that we cannot discern the truly dangerous from the cranks lame and lazy. But you are spot on it is not Islam that is to blame - it no more corrupts than any other religion. To say so absolves those who carryout these terrible acts. The individual is to blame and they alone must stand accountable.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: .
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, but one particular Afro kid was murdered years ago and we've never heard the end of it.
If it was the other way round it would be long forgotten.
I, for one, have had ENOUGH of being treated like a second class citizen in MY country. Moslem fanatics, living off of OUR taxes can go out and threaten to kill us, damn our way of life and demand to take over our country but if a Brit says "Boo!" he's hauled up for racist incitement.
If those people don't like us, then eff off! I don't care if you are a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant. Your have self excluded by your attitude.
If it was the other way round it would be long forgotten.
I, for one, have had ENOUGH of being treated like a second class citizen in MY country. Moslem fanatics, living off of OUR taxes can go out and threaten to kill us, damn our way of life and demand to take over our country but if a Brit says "Boo!" he's hauled up for racist incitement.
If those people don't like us, then eff off! I don't care if you are a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant. Your have self excluded by your attitude.
Last edited by TomJoad; 29th May 2013 at 17:55.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is lots of confusion on here, your typical Muslim is a law abiding, respectful citizen who loves their country but doesn't want to forget their roots. Many are my friends. It's also worth pointing out that 'they' (immigrants and children of immigrants that is) contribute more to the economy than they take out, more than can be said for many of the Anglo saxon natives...
However, there is a fringe of Sufi wahabbist nut jobs, some of whom voice an opinion (their right, doesn't mean I don't think they are a bunch of cnuts for doing so). Then there are those who take it to the next level. I don't think there are any secrets to who those individuals are. And I truly believe we should be sending hardware and personnel their way when abroad training with enemies of our nation, instead of burdening the security services with keeping track of them. They should be removed, unashamedly for taking this next step. If Obama can do it, so should we.
I can think of a fair few natives who deserve their passports far less than courageous individuals like this:
Home | Mail Online
However, there is a fringe of Sufi wahabbist nut jobs, some of whom voice an opinion (their right, doesn't mean I don't think they are a bunch of cnuts for doing so). Then there are those who take it to the next level. I don't think there are any secrets to who those individuals are. And I truly believe we should be sending hardware and personnel their way when abroad training with enemies of our nation, instead of burdening the security services with keeping track of them. They should be removed, unashamedly for taking this next step. If Obama can do it, so should we.
I can think of a fair few natives who deserve their passports far less than courageous individuals like this:
Home | Mail Online
Last edited by VinRouge; 26th May 2013 at 22:00.
These people are us you idiot - every bit as British as you. Ignore that fact and you remove yourself further from the solution. As has been said earlier the terrorist agenda is to cause the race issue. You need to apply a we bit more intelligence than them.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
It is equally true that we are friendly with many muslim countries, Nigeria, Maldives, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Philippines, Yemen, Emirates, Kuwait, Jordan etc etc.
In fact if we went through the list we would probably find it is some or few and not most. There be many more non-muslim countries that are corrupt.
woptb, Foul and loathsome.Don't you have even an iota of self awareness ?
What I said is fact and, if you find it difficult to swallow then tough!
I did not deny that the boy was murdered but do you hear of racist attacks by black on white?
Last edited by Basil; 27th May 2013 at 09:01.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Well, what have we here? If all you can do is spit bile you are not much of a debater, eh?
What I said is fact and, if you find it difficult to swallow then tough!
I did not deny that the boy was murdered but do you hear of racist attacks by black on white?
What I said is fact and, if you find it difficult to swallow then tough!
I did not deny that the boy was murdered but do you hear of racist attacks by black on white?
Read Macpherson.
I'm sure some of your best friends are black ?
I will however answer as if it was a serious question: No, not my BEST friends, but one of the best captains with whom I flew as a FO was black, a top training manager in a sister company was black. I have several Muslim friends: there's Mohammed ("I only drink Champagne!") ******, Darius who goes out on the toot with his Iranian mates, a couple of pilots who fought on opposite sides in the Iraq Iran war; we discussed that all together over a beer or three. Another who would be in trouble if identified.
Have you noticed a common thread here? Those Muslims would be in a bit of bother if their social habits became known to the nutters under discussion which does say something unpleasant about modern Islam.
I don't need to read the report to understand that this young man was murdered in a racist attack. Ever heard of Kriss Donald or Ross Parker? No? Didn't think so. I stand by my comment.
But you, woptb, charge in, guns blazing and attack world experienced people who disagree with your PC views.
p.s. Names changed to protect the guilty.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Basil - the invitation to read the Macpherson report was not to familiarise yourself with the nature of the attack, but the way the police handled the investigation and the unpleasant attitudes it exposed.