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Basil - the invitation to read the Macpherson report was not to familiarise yourself with the nature of the attack, but the way the police handled the investigation and the unpleasant attitudes it exposed.
So as a member of the great & good but very obviously lacking in a sense of irony,what is an Afro (me I thought it was a hairstyle)?
By the way,well done on trawling google for a few examples to illustrate your point,I applaud you !
As for Macpherson,extrodinairly the senior investigating officer didn't understand his powers of arrest,speak to a probationer straight out of Hendon & they understand it better !
The most worrying element was the ingrained,widespread & institutionalised racism not just across the Met,but within constabularies right across the UK.
Look further back to Op Swamp 81, (my brother took part as a new very junior PC),how locals were treated,what they were subjected too.
By the way,well done on trawling google for a few examples to illustrate your point,I applaud you !
As for Macpherson,extrodinairly the senior investigating officer didn't understand his powers of arrest,speak to a probationer straight out of Hendon & they understand it better !
The most worrying element was the ingrained,widespread & institutionalised racism not just across the Met,but within constabularies right across the UK.
Look further back to Op Swamp 81, (my brother took part as a new very junior PC),how locals were treated,what they were subjected too.
Last edited by woptb; 27th May 2013 at 10:31.
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Basil - Great, it was just that you said a couple of posts ago that you certainly gave the impression that you felt the relevance of the report was detailing that the attack was carried out by racists. Obviously a bit of misunderstanding there!
Again, I think mishandling understates what happened - the troubling bit wasn't general incompetence or shoddy police work, but the racist attitudes that affected the way to investigation was carried out.
Again, I think mishandling understates what happened - the troubling bit wasn't general incompetence or shoddy police work, but the racist attitudes that affected the way to investigation was carried out.
Firstly, my condolences to Lee Rigby's family. What a tragic waste to have a young life cut short with such barbarity.
Secondly, I assume Basil was writing about the tragic death of school boy Damilola Taylor. I think that people remember his death for the same reason that they will Lee Rigby's ie a heinous murder committed by people filled with a senseless hatred.
As for Britain's multicultural population I think it says something good about the innate British tolerance and respect for others. Something to celebrate not condemn. Whether large scale immigration was beneficial to the UK is something best debated, IMHO, by considering the broader aspects and not an isolated and barbaric act.
Secondly, I assume Basil was writing about the tragic death of school boy Damilola Taylor. I think that people remember his death for the same reason that they will Lee Rigby's ie a heinous murder committed by people filled with a senseless hatred.
As for Britain's multicultural population I think it says something good about the innate British tolerance and respect for others. Something to celebrate not condemn. Whether large scale immigration was beneficial to the UK is something best debated, IMHO, by considering the broader aspects and not an isolated and barbaric act.
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Hi, PN. You said
Well you're right it is a broad brush statement, but I wouldn't say that the countries you list are free from power seeking and corrupt factions.
Nor that the fact of so-called friendly relations with the UK is any indication of the virtue of a particular regime.
After all, the UK supported Saddam Hussein's regime, when it was at war with Iran, and the Taliban regime when it was at war with Russia. Also, who could forget the "love in" between Tony Blair (then UK Prime Minister) and Col Ghaddafi. Some time later we dispatched warships and aircraft to destroy him (Ghaddafi that is). We also put enormous military resource into destroying Saddam and just as much into trying to destroy the Taliban.
I don't suggest that power seeking and corruption is only apparent in Muslim countries, it is rife throughout the world. But I do have great sympathy with the many millions of good Muslims who currently languish under the rule of corrupt regimes.
Bit of a thread drift, I know, but I thought PN deserved a friendly response.
Rgds SOS
Code:
Now that is a broad brush statement. It is true that many countries are apparently ruled by corrupt, power seeking, sects, tribes, cliques, warlords, sheiks, princes etc etc.
It is equally true that we are friendly with many muslim countries, Nigeria, Maldives, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Philippines, Yemen, Emirates, Kuwait, Jordan etc etc.
In fact if we went through the list we would probably find it is some or few and not most. There be many more non-muslim countries that are corrupt.
Nor that the fact of so-called friendly relations with the UK is any indication of the virtue of a particular regime.
After all, the UK supported Saddam Hussein's regime, when it was at war with Iran, and the Taliban regime when it was at war with Russia. Also, who could forget the "love in" between Tony Blair (then UK Prime Minister) and Col Ghaddafi. Some time later we dispatched warships and aircraft to destroy him (Ghaddafi that is). We also put enormous military resource into destroying Saddam and just as much into trying to destroy the Taliban.
I don't suggest that power seeking and corruption is only apparent in Muslim countries, it is rife throughout the world. But I do have great sympathy with the many millions of good Muslims who currently languish under the rule of corrupt regimes.
Bit of a thread drift, I know, but I thought PN deserved a friendly response.
Rgds SOS
Last edited by SOSL; 27th May 2013 at 15:28.
The Maldives is mentioned there I notice.
I have said this before but it is worth repeating. On my last work visit there and importantly in the capital Male, The wearing of the female islamic garb, burqua whatever is illegal.
Too many men were wearing it as disguise when carrying out criminal acts.
The Maldives is/are an Islamic republic !!
I have said this before but it is worth repeating. On my last work visit there and importantly in the capital Male, The wearing of the female islamic garb, burqua whatever is illegal.
Too many men were wearing it as disguise when carrying out criminal acts.
The Maldives is/are an Islamic republic !!
Suddenly, nothing happened. And nothing startling will happen. Not as a direct result of this at any rate. We all know that, regardless of any of the issues mentioned here, corrupt governments, Islamic states, liberal Islamic states, religious fundamentalists of all persuasions, quotes from history, myths, prejudices, opportunist critics and supporters, Britain will not be changed by one event, no matter how abhorrent. Something similar may happen again (it has twice in France recently), but it will not, nor should it, change who we are. Life will go on and the millions of good people in this country will remain the dominant majority.
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20 April 1968
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Thank you SOSL.
I wonder what sanctions are open to HMG. I know passports can be cancelled thus ensuring that they can no longer travel to their training schools. I know that non-British citizens can, in theory, be deported. I also know that British passports issued overseas are endorsed 'right of abode in the United Kingdom'.
I also know that my passport is scrutinised before I can re-enter the UK and I also have to present myself to my employer in the next 3 weeks to prove that I am eligible to work in the UK.
Is it possible to actually refuse 'right of abode' to a British national that has done some proscribed act such as attending a training camp? Can they be made ineligible to work in the UK? Can benefits be denied? Can they be exiled?
I wonder what sanctions are open to HMG. I know passports can be cancelled thus ensuring that they can no longer travel to their training schools. I know that non-British citizens can, in theory, be deported. I also know that British passports issued overseas are endorsed 'right of abode in the United Kingdom'.
I also know that my passport is scrutinised before I can re-enter the UK and I also have to present myself to my employer in the next 3 weeks to prove that I am eligible to work in the UK.
Is it possible to actually refuse 'right of abode' to a British national that has done some proscribed act such as attending a training camp? Can they be made ineligible to work in the UK? Can benefits be denied? Can they be exiled?
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My daughter is a Customs and Border person and she deports loads of the buggers. But as she says, you send them back and they are on the next lorry back here.
I still think that religion should be treated the same as others...to quote Richard Dawkins (not Dorkins as I rather dorkishly typed earlier 
):
In a nation that prides itself on freedom of speech, is it time to stop regarding 'religious sensitivity'?
LJ
):
"religious sensitivities are somehow especially deserving of consideration—a consideration not accorded to ordinary prejudice. . . , Even secular activists are incomprehensibly soft when it comes to religion. We join feminists in condemning a work of pornography because it degrades women. But hands off a holy book that advocates stoning adultresses to death (having been convicted in courts where females are decreed unfit to give evidence)! Animal liberationists attack laboratories that scrupulously use anesthetics for all operations. But what about ritual slaughter houses in which animals have to be fully conscious when their throats are cut? . . . The rest of us are expected to defend our prejudices. But ask a religious person to justify his faith and you infringe "religious liberty."
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 27th May 2013 at 22:14.
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Firstly, my condolences to Lee Rigby's family. What a tragic waste to have a young life cut short with such barbarity.
Secondly, I assume Basil was writing about the tragic death of school boy Damilola Taylor. I think that people remember his death for the same reason that they will Lee Rigby's ie a heinous murder committed by people filled with a senseless hatred.
As for Britain's multicultural population I think it says something good about the innate British tolerance and respect for others. Something to celebrate not condemn. Whether large scale immigration was beneficial to the UK is something best debated, IMHO, by considering the broader aspects and not an isolated and barbaric act.
Secondly, I assume Basil was writing about the tragic death of school boy Damilola Taylor. I think that people remember his death for the same reason that they will Lee Rigby's ie a heinous murder committed by people filled with a senseless hatred.
As for Britain's multicultural population I think it says something good about the innate British tolerance and respect for others. Something to celebrate not condemn. Whether large scale immigration was beneficial to the UK is something best debated, IMHO, by considering the broader aspects and not an isolated and barbaric act.
Well said BBK
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Nothing mystical about condition of being British mate - no particular DNA or creed, otherwise required. It is as simple, dull and disappointing as a legal definition. Our history, modern and ancient, is replete with British citizens taking up arms and visiting violence on the state. This did not make those individuals "non British" simply criminals. If you remove these individuals from the crime that they committed by suggesting that somehow they were doing another state's, creed's or religion's bidding then you are part way to absolving them of their crime. Let's make no mistake, this heinous crime is theirs to which they alone should answer - let's not go chasing shadows.
Last edited by TomJoad; 27th May 2013 at 22:28.
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TomJoad - ten people have now been arrested in connection with this murder, more like organised crime/insurrection than just two nutters on their own.
and where might that population be I wonder? Britain is multi racial but there is very little effort by immigrants to integrate with British society and our accepted codes of behaviour, some areas of Britain bear more resemblance to foreign countries than to Britain, try the bottom end of the Edgware road for starters. Britain isn't multi-cultural, not by a long way.
As for Britain's multicultural population
Originally Posted by parabellum
ten people have now been arrested in connection with this murder
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 27th May 2013 at 23:02.