Help needed identifying someone who is potentially lying about RAF experience

[spimbolligan]

Good afternoon

I have just started working with someone on a high profile/high cost project that is under scrutiny for potential purchase by the MOD. The gentleman in question claims to have flown Hawks in the RAF in the mid to late 1970s. Whenever I question him about his experience on Hawks, postings, dates of graduation from Cranwell and so forth, his responses are extremely vague and seem ill-informed.

This is an extremely delicate situation as we are about to be scrutinised by DE&S and I would like to assure myself on behalf of the investors that he is telling the truth. If lies are uncovered as part of a due diligence process, it will jeopardise the considerable investment that I and others have put into the project.

I would value any assistance that any of you can give me in identifying whether or not my colleague served. If he is telling the truth (and is just naturally vague), believe me I will be delighted.

Please PM me for further details

[pr00ne]

spimbolligan,

Ask him what else he flew. Nobody 'just' flew Hawks. it was a part of the fast jet training pipeline, so it is entirely possible that the Hawk was the LAST aircraft he flew in the RAF, if he was chopped at Valley or TWU.

Also, in the mid seventies it was also entirely possible for a GD(P) not to have been anywhere near Cranwell.

Also, you may want to have a quiet word in his ear about the consequences for him of a reference check revealing that his CV is less than truthful.

[sycamore]

You might try the London Gazette archives,or someone may have access to an Air Force List(bedtime reading..)

ED. Can`t have gone much further ,as if he was a `fighter pilot` he`d be boring you to death as a WIWO/L,J,P,B,T..forgot Harrier...

[just another jocky]

Ask him what the T6NL warning was for.

[RAFEngO74to09]

MOD Service Records

Service records can be obtained by individuals, next of kin or general enquirers using the procedure here:

https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-pers...sonnel-records

[Wander00]

Tell him that acceptance of the bid will require docs check with RAF records and a police check for convictions/warnings

[Courtney Mil]

PM me his name. I went through Hawks at that very time. Simples.

[spimbolligan]

Thanks all for your replies.

I don't have access to an RAF list. I've just spent some time tracking my father down via the Gazette and it's a bit too time consuming for my needs.

As for blind-siding him with bold face drills or "having a quiet word", the situation is sensitive, so I'd rather not at this stage.

If, working with one or more of you via PMs (thanks Courtney) I can establish that its unlikely that he served, I'll have the quiet word re fraudulent CV then

[sisemen]

Tell him that you're really impressed given that you'd heard the rumours that they were very unforgiving aircraft once the No 2 engine flamed out - which was a regular occurrence.

Hint: they only had one engine.

[BEagle]

As I've indicated in my PM, if your chap is not a Brit, it might well be worth remembering that there were a number of visitors who came to Valley in the early days of the Hawk on various potential customer assessment sessions.

An Israeli pilot was brutally honest about the pre-AHARS compass system, I recall.

Also don't forget that CFS might have had FJ QFIs from non-RAF backgrounds on various courses.

[spimbolligan]

Thanks for your continuing interest and PMs on this.

He definitely claims to be ex RAF and ex Cranwell - so he wasn't a visiting "foreigner"

I can't ask him any more loaded questions about the Hawk, Squadrons, bases, Cranwell etc etc as I have already peppered him with loaded questions about loop time, EGOV, 14/32 etc etc

[Courtney Mil]

It sounds to me like it might be fairly safe to assume it's a load of old hoop then.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Sounds like an extremely important issue (no facetiousness implied); have you considered just outright asking him?

I'm sure if you dressed it up as "investors requiring proof of service from anyone with service credentials involved in the project" etc then you'd get your answer. Any evasiveness would make me think he's full of it.

Every pilot will know where their logbook is if nothing else, and I don't know a single FJ mate without at least a handful of posed by-the-cockpit photos that are easy to access!

[sisemen]

Ask him what entry he was in at Cranwell. Then report it here and there are enough people with enough nous about IOT to be able to pin it down.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Likewise squadrons, courses he was on or taught, etc etc. Most suspicious thing so far is claiming to have flown the Hawk in the mid-to-late 70s (which would have been its introduction?) but no mention of the preceding/succeeding Lightning/Phantom/Buccaneer/etc tours.

[BOAC]

You could always say, casually, that you have mentioned on a mil forum that you know a chap from the '70s'/Cranwell/Hawks' and that others from the same era are interested to know which Cranwell course?

What about sharing your concerns higher up the tree and seeing if the CV can be 'inspected' if the project is that sensitive?

[BEagle]

...a high profile/high cost project that is under scrutiny for potential purchase by the MOD...

If it's that high profile/high cost, then you cannot afford liars. Tell him that there are doubts about his service history and that Questions Will Be Asked unless he can prove his claims!

What rank did he reach - and why did he leave?

And yes, ask him to show you his Form 414!

[Courtney Mil]

...or his log book.

[Evanelpus]

Is it your project or are you working for him on his project.

If it's the former, it's simple. Ask him to provide PROOF of what he is claiming and tell him that this will be expected when you get checked out by the DE&S. If he can't or won't provide it, get rid! Simples

If it's the latter, this may be a bit more delicate, so good luck

[spimbolligan]

Evanelpus

Latter. Hence my tentative approach. Once I've satisfied myself that he's walting, I'll raise it with a more senior shareholder