You know you have become a third rate Air Force when....
Thread Starter
We know we are in a 2nd rate Air Force when...
A 2* has to approve funding for a domestic flight...
A 2* has to approve funding for a domestic flight...
Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 24th Apr 2013 at 07:46.
That's nothing particularly new. I had to take a small deligation of staff from HQ 1 Gp to a secret interceptor base on the East coast of Scotland a few years back. Cheapest, quickest option, MT to Heathrow, BA Shuttle to Edinburgh (£56) and a choice of cheap options onward. Budget holder away on leave, so no one to approve the flights. Net result, rail to Scotland instead at £290 a ticket and two extra days out of the office for 4 RAF officers.
How times must have changed....
For the worse...
Last century, I had to go to Ramstein once for a meeting about a forthcoming exercise - something we could probably have done over the phone in the UK.
A mate (vascodegama) had tipped me off about investigating travel costs. Sure enough, self-drive would be marginally cheaper than train/fly/hire car/fly/train. Even better was running up the blunties' phone bill waiting for proof from the USAF that there was no room at the inn on base either at Ramstein or Wiesbaden, so a local hotel would be on the cards. Then I sorted approval for quickest rather than shortest (which would have taken an extra day, probably...) mileage - and as the conference ended at 1300 on the second day, it was agreed that I could stay overnight on the way home.
So, drive to the Channel Tunnel, then across to Ramstein via France and Germany. 2 nights there, shopping at the BX, a night stop at Reims on the way back, a couple of crates of wine at Calais and home in the early afternoon. Plus lots of Rates a few days later....
Still cheaper than flying....allegedly!
For the worse...Last century, I had to go to Ramstein once for a meeting about a forthcoming exercise - something we could probably have done over the phone in the UK.
A mate (vascodegama) had tipped me off about investigating travel costs. Sure enough, self-drive would be marginally cheaper than train/fly/hire car/fly/train. Even better was running up the blunties' phone bill waiting for proof from the USAF that there was no room at the inn on base either at Ramstein or Wiesbaden, so a local hotel would be on the cards. Then I sorted approval for quickest rather than shortest (which would have taken an extra day, probably...) mileage - and as the conference ended at 1300 on the second day, it was agreed that I could stay overnight on the way home.
So, drive to the Channel Tunnel, then across to Ramstein via France and Germany. 2 nights there, shopping at the BX, a night stop at Reims on the way back, a couple of crates of wine at Calais and home in the early afternoon. Plus lots of Rates a few days later....
Still cheaper than flying....allegedly!
I wouldn't have described discussing our stupid, and ultimately non cost effective, travel authorization rules as whinging - rather highlighting a fault in the system that needs correcting, not that anyone will bother to listen.
Considering that one of the in vogue buzzwords in recent times was "empowerment" I find the concept of needing a Gp Capt to authorize internal UK air travel, which almost inevitably causes delays which in turn mean the flight costs have risen, often dramatically, both baffling and ultimately self defeating......
Considering that one of the in vogue buzzwords in recent times was "empowerment" I find the concept of needing a Gp Capt to authorize internal UK air travel, which almost inevitably causes delays which in turn mean the flight costs have risen, often dramatically, both baffling and ultimately self defeating......
Excuse a non military type commenting ehre but ebven discounting for cyncism and sarcasm which we Brits are good at it is sad to read what is said about the RAF. It seems to me that after decades of British Industy and Commerce being wrecked by MBAs accountants (sorry I mean Finanace Directors or Chief Financial Officers) the same disease has finally spread to the services.
In industry it is the same- focus on all the minutae and fashionable, speak in riddles (our US cousins invented this trait but they know it is bull**** anyway) use words like accountability to hide from their own responsibilities.
Remove every tiny perk or privilege from the people who do the work while adding more and more for the peopel who 'manage',
Lose the plot on things like cutting back essential training because it is expensive but overlook the fact it is the core of what the RAF does, in fact unless there is war on it is all it does.
So I would not encourage you to all leave en masse as the 'real world' is no better and perhaps even worse.
So could we actually intercept half a dozen bears north of Scotland if the Russians got a bit frisky again or would we need to relay on the USAF and L'armee de l 'air to help out??
God luck to all of you though , you have my respect for what thats worth
In industry it is the same- focus on all the minutae and fashionable, speak in riddles (our US cousins invented this trait but they know it is bull**** anyway) use words like accountability to hide from their own responsibilities.
Remove every tiny perk or privilege from the people who do the work while adding more and more for the peopel who 'manage',
Lose the plot on things like cutting back essential training because it is expensive but overlook the fact it is the core of what the RAF does, in fact unless there is war on it is all it does.
So I would not encourage you to all leave en masse as the 'real world' is no better and perhaps even worse.
So could we actually intercept half a dozen bears north of Scotland if the Russians got a bit frisky again or would we need to relay on the USAF and L'armee de l 'air to help out??
God luck to all of you though , you have my respect for what thats worth
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When the USA are concidering putting us in the same league as our "Free loading" NATO neighbours.
America, our great protector, is looking the other way - Telegraph.
America, our great protector, is looking the other way - Telegraph.
Apologies if I have said this before, but as a civvy attached almost continuously to the RAF for 41 years, and always a Mess member, I did my best to climb the slippery pole without actually putting a boot on someone's head, in order to get more money, see the world, get more job satisfaction, and more perks.
The slow drain of perks has been going on for ever.
1. c. 1959 a Scientific Assistant [me] got 3 weeks leave. On promotion to Assistant Experimental Officer, leave went to 6 weeks "just like that". In 1960 the rules changed, and a newly promoted AXO [me] got three extra DAYS only, with slow increments like a water drip.
2. After AXO came Higher SO, no more perks, roughly FltLt level.
3. But Senior SO c. 1975 brought 1st class rail travel.
NOT. "Yes the rules say so but we are a bit short of cash so ...... and if you insist you can but I have to notify HQ. But if you make Principal that will be OK".
4. PSO 1980. "Yes, we did say so but absolutely nobody travels first class on the railways, its not done. You did want a Germany tour, did you not?"
5. Germany JHQ 1989. Sort of inferior Gp Capt level ie paid said Mess sub, but that was it apart from a shiny staff car and driver whenever I needed it for off-base. Withdrawn after one year. Self-drive. Then the issue cars got steadily smaller and older. I came home before it was an issue bike, but you get the picture.
Not a whinge, just "it was ever thus", and not just for the RAF.
The slow drain of perks has been going on for ever.
1. c. 1959 a Scientific Assistant [me] got 3 weeks leave. On promotion to Assistant Experimental Officer, leave went to 6 weeks "just like that". In 1960 the rules changed, and a newly promoted AXO [me] got three extra DAYS only, with slow increments like a water drip.
2. After AXO came Higher SO, no more perks, roughly FltLt level.
3. But Senior SO c. 1975 brought 1st class rail travel.
NOT. "Yes the rules say so but we are a bit short of cash so ...... and if you insist you can but I have to notify HQ. But if you make Principal that will be OK".
4. PSO 1980. "Yes, we did say so but absolutely nobody travels first class on the railways, its not done. You did want a Germany tour, did you not?"
5. Germany JHQ 1989. Sort of inferior Gp Capt level ie paid said Mess sub, but that was it apart from a shiny staff car and driver whenever I needed it for off-base. Withdrawn after one year. Self-drive. Then the issue cars got steadily smaller and older. I came home before it was an issue bike, but you get the picture.
Not a whinge, just "it was ever thus", and not just for the RAF.
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Whenurhappy
And by the time funding has been approved, the flight costs have escalated...
And by the time funding has been approved, the flight costs have escalated...
A couple of staff were due to fly out to sign the said deal and meetings were set up, staff travelled down to London to fly out on one of their own scheduled flights and inline with company policy favouring passengers, they were bumped off the flight so Tracey and Dave could fly out on their £5-99 get away. Meetings were rescheduled for the next day and again they were kicked off the flight. In the end the other party flew over.
On a related matter, for those residing overseas, there is a contractual requirement to undergo resettlement training in...Herford, Germany. Now that's fine if you are a 23 year old soldier wanting to get an HGV licence or do C&G in Bricklaying, but if you are longer in the tooth and professionally qualified, it’s a rubbish solution. Moreover, it’s a bu&&er of a place to get to.
Irrespective of a business case showing that it is cheaper and more efficient to return to the UK and attend resettlement courses at RAF Northolt (or in the City) - and fought and lost at 1* level – the rules state you must go to Herford (or fund your own trip to the UK) because of the contract with the ‘resettlement partner’.
Irrespective of a business case showing that it is cheaper and more efficient to return to the UK and attend resettlement courses at RAF Northolt (or in the City) - and fought and lost at 1* level – the rules state you must go to Herford (or fund your own trip to the UK) because of the contract with the ‘resettlement partner’.
Last edited by Whenurhappy; 25th Apr 2013 at 10:22.
When, within the next 3 years, over 10% of the remaining RAF will be sat on it's collective arse at High Wycombe.
A Gp Capt for every airframe with still some to spare......
A Gp Capt for every airframe with still some to spare......
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It seems to me that after decades of British Industy and Commerce being wrecked by MBAs accountants (sorry I mean Finanace Directors or Chief Financial Officers) the same disease has finally spread to the services
Originally Posted by Wyler
When, within the next 3 years, over 10% of the remaining RAF will be sat on it's collective arse at High Wycombe.
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Mind you, he doesn't like any other accountants ...
Best ...
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 25th Apr 2013 at 18:12.
Courtney M
I'm afraid,that in the last thirty years, the past perfect tenses of the verbs to sit, and to stand, have become sat and stood, rather than sitting and standing.i'd have to concede, though, that language does 'evolve'.
I'm afraid,that in the last thirty years, the past perfect tenses of the verbs to sit, and to stand, have become sat and stood, rather than sitting and standing.i'd have to concede, though, that language does 'evolve'.
