You know you have become a third rate Air Force when....
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You know you have become a third rate Air Force when....
You are so short of manning you actually have to use Flight Sgt's and Sgt's to bolster the parade ranks..
Halton March for Freedom of Aylesbury Vale
Btw
You are so short of manning you actually have to use Flight Sgt's and Sgt's to bolster the parade ranks..
Halton March for Freedom of Aylesbury Vale
Btw
Freedom of Entry to the town of Wendover, this allows RAF Halton troops the permission to march through the town with bayanets fixed.
RAF/MOD Crown Copyright 2013
RAF/MOD Crown Copyright 2013
Last edited by NutLoose; 19th Apr 2013 at 01:06.
>One hopes you did a risk assessment before commencing<
I did, and came to the conclusion that there might be an irreversible paradigm shift, that it might lead to a world of hurt and that I didn't want to die in a ditch over it. I also thought there might be a few potential poo traps and couldn't evaluate the flash-to-bang time to within an order of magnitude. Also (blah, blah, zzzzzz, cont p94)
I did, and came to the conclusion that there might be an irreversible paradigm shift, that it might lead to a world of hurt and that I didn't want to die in a ditch over it. I also thought there might be a few potential poo traps and couldn't evaluate the flash-to-bang time to within an order of magnitude. Also (blah, blah, zzzzzz, cont p94)
Bring back the days of straightforward speaking (easy for a Yorkshireman) and (IIRC) Accuracy, Brevity, Clarity were the three tenets of service writing. - Oh and the first definition in the OED was the only acceptable one which made:
Boss - An Ornamental Knob
Career - To hurtle down hill out of control.
There, I think that provides sufficient granularity to the stakeholders
Boss - An Ornamental Knob
Career - To hurtle down hill out of control.
There, I think that provides sufficient granularity to the stakeholders
You know when you are a 3rd rate air force when…
You buy 7 expensive but highly capable E-3D aircraft and use them extensively from ISD. Having embarked on a unique op that has less need for them you ignore recent history or growing troubles around the world that would make them essential again you decide to:
- Take one of the youngest E-3s in the world out of service
- Put it in one of the few large aircraft hangars you have left
- Pay someone to take it apart
- Pay them to produce a report to tell you what age-related problems this young aircraft has
- Announce to other E-3 operators that you will have ageing aircraft data on an aircraft that is less than half the age of theirs
- Hope that said operators don't laugh at you in public
- Belatedly wonder why you built and aircraft only to destroy it for a science experiment
- Wonder why you have less E-3s on the flying programme than you did before
- Wonder why it does not seem to have saved any money at all
Oh and manage to achieve all this whilst the RN are forced into a 4 year+ capability holiday for their only organic early warning aircraft.
You buy 7 expensive but highly capable E-3D aircraft and use them extensively from ISD. Having embarked on a unique op that has less need for them you ignore recent history or growing troubles around the world that would make them essential again you decide to:
- Take one of the youngest E-3s in the world out of service
- Put it in one of the few large aircraft hangars you have left
- Pay someone to take it apart
- Pay them to produce a report to tell you what age-related problems this young aircraft has
- Announce to other E-3 operators that you will have ageing aircraft data on an aircraft that is less than half the age of theirs
- Hope that said operators don't laugh at you in public
- Belatedly wonder why you built and aircraft only to destroy it for a science experiment
- Wonder why you have less E-3s on the flying programme than you did before
- Wonder why it does not seem to have saved any money at all
Oh and manage to achieve all this whilst the RN are forced into a 4 year+ capability holiday for their only organic early warning aircraft.
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Third rate at best. The RAF started to fall apart in the late 90s when it started to reward so-called leaders who have their statistics in order, rather than promote the risk takers or good aviators. There are far too many senior officers who simply cannot lead effectively either on the ground or more importantly in the cockpit. It is prevalent right to the top. Senior officers acting like politicians! There is still a lot of talent at the coalface but it is being stifled.
"The RAF started to fall apart in the late 90s when it started to reward so-called leaders who have their statistics in order, rather than promote the risk takers or good aviators. "
And yet that same generation of leaders and their successors have managed to ensure the RAF has been able to deliver outstanding success in pretty much continuous high intensity operations thousands of miles from the homebase since 2001.
Since 1999 the RAF has been delivering airpower in every concievable form, often at great distance and in incredibly difficult surroundings. The aircrew and ground crew have worked harder than ever, their efforts have helped ensure some phenomenal successes and in OP ELLAMY a near text book example of the value of deployed airpower acheiving success at very short notice.
The RAF that so many here seem to slag off is one which has at its heart a group of people who have spent the best years of their careers progressing through the system and ensuring that despite incredibly challenging financial circumstances, the RAF has been able to ensure mission success. The same people who do this are the ones who people are quick to slag off for turning it into a third rate airforce.
I'm not RAF, but I do work very closely with members of the service from SNCO - 2* level on a daily basis. At every level I meet individuals who are hugely proud of what they do, passionate about delivering the best they can for their service and country, and who have incredible tales of what they have been up to for almost their entire careers. I am fed up of people sitting here sniping from the outside at people who face challenges easily the equal of anything their predecessors encountered, and doing so with great courage, dedication and humour.
Frankly, I look at our Air Force and I feel bloody proud and very lucky to know what good hands it is in today.
And yet that same generation of leaders and their successors have managed to ensure the RAF has been able to deliver outstanding success in pretty much continuous high intensity operations thousands of miles from the homebase since 2001.
Since 1999 the RAF has been delivering airpower in every concievable form, often at great distance and in incredibly difficult surroundings. The aircrew and ground crew have worked harder than ever, their efforts have helped ensure some phenomenal successes and in OP ELLAMY a near text book example of the value of deployed airpower acheiving success at very short notice.
The RAF that so many here seem to slag off is one which has at its heart a group of people who have spent the best years of their careers progressing through the system and ensuring that despite incredibly challenging financial circumstances, the RAF has been able to ensure mission success. The same people who do this are the ones who people are quick to slag off for turning it into a third rate airforce.
I'm not RAF, but I do work very closely with members of the service from SNCO - 2* level on a daily basis. At every level I meet individuals who are hugely proud of what they do, passionate about delivering the best they can for their service and country, and who have incredible tales of what they have been up to for almost their entire careers. I am fed up of people sitting here sniping from the outside at people who face challenges easily the equal of anything their predecessors encountered, and doing so with great courage, dedication and humour.
Frankly, I look at our Air Force and I feel bloody proud and very lucky to know what good hands it is in today.
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You should be proud! They do a tremendous job. But instead of giving them a pat on the back, while picking their pocket, perhaps practical gratitude would make them feel more valued.
That's all right then, we can relax.
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Jim Lad 1
I respect your right to express your opinion and some of what you say is correct but nowhere near all of it. We are going to have to differ. I am at the coalface and have been since the early 80s so no sniping from the outside here laddy!
I respect your right to express your opinion and some of what you say is correct but nowhere near all of it. We are going to have to differ. I am at the coalface and have been since the early 80s so no sniping from the outside here laddy!
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"I'm not RAF, but I do work very closely with members of the service from SNCO - 2* level on a daily basis. At every level I meet individuals who are hugely proud of what they do, passionate about delivering the best they can for their service and country, and who have incredible tales of what they have been up to for almost their entire careers. I am fed up of people sitting here sniping from the outside at people who face challenges easily the equal of anything their predecessors encountered, and doing so with great courage, dedication and humour. "
Jimlad, seriously, think about that. Whatever the RAF have had to put up with in recent decades is pretty insignificant compared to what they had to put up with in WW2.
Jimlad, seriously, think about that. Whatever the RAF have had to put up with in recent decades is pretty insignificant compared to what they had to put up with in WW2.
Parallel track is absolutely spot on - especially with the date.
That's why I eventually left - too many people managing PI's and not enough leading.
There is still a small cadre of excellent leaders and an exceptional base of people - but they manage to achieve stuff despite the 'leadership', not because of it.
That's why I eventually left - too many people managing PI's and not enough leading.
There is still a small cadre of excellent leaders and an exceptional base of people - but they manage to achieve stuff despite the 'leadership', not because of it.
Does anyone really think the standard of leadership is that different today than it has ever been? We've always had people with a variety of strengths and weaknesses - just look at how many have been named here from previous decades, some that have been seriously at fault. The biggest thing now is the lack of funding, the continual squeeze on numbers and equipment and repeated, short-term 'reviews'. The quality of the people doing the job is as excellent as it has ever been, even in the face of fewer flying hours, lacking equipment and the like.
Two things here. First I think you're being very picky in your responses to Jimlad1 who makes, IMHO, a very good point. Second, I think it's all too easy to overlook the excellence. I'm not talking about capability gaps here as I think you need to look elsewhere to find the blame for those.
Let's not confuse political commitment with the excellence of our people - well, as ever, most of them.
Two things here. First I think you're being very picky in your responses to Jimlad1 who makes, IMHO, a very good point. Second, I think it's all too easy to overlook the excellence. I'm not talking about capability gaps here as I think you need to look elsewhere to find the blame for those.
Let's not confuse political commitment with the excellence of our people - well, as ever, most of them.
Courtney,
I respect your opinion, but don't agree.
The calibre of people has remained constant, but there has been a marked decline in quality of leadership since the early 90's. PI's, migration of wanqueresque buzzwords and focus on trivia has been the issue. I blame the reporting system which rewards focus on admin and penalises free thought and initiative.
There are still pockets of brilliance, but they are normally short lived before the individual concedes to the inevitable and leaves.
Anyway, I am now a civvy so my opinion isn't really important..... only replied as Parallel Track echoed my long held belief.
I respect your opinion, but don't agree.
The calibre of people has remained constant, but there has been a marked decline in quality of leadership since the early 90's. PI's, migration of wanqueresque buzzwords and focus on trivia has been the issue. I blame the reporting system which rewards focus on admin and penalises free thought and initiative.
There are still pockets of brilliance, but they are normally short lived before the individual concedes to the inevitable and leaves.
Anyway, I am now a civvy so my opinion isn't really important..... only replied as Parallel Track echoed my long held belief.
Last edited by minigundiplomat; 22nd Apr 2013 at 07:07.
I was about to sat that every generation has tended to think that the leadership in their time is always worse than it used to be. However, I heard a piece on BBC Radio 4 this morning which gave me pause for thought. It used to be that big, non-military organizations looked, occasionally, at the great military leaders for inspiration and lessons in leadership.
Now it seems that the Army's leadership have published a list of just 90 texts for young thrusting officers to read that rather reverses that trend. Now it's the Army looking to the bosses of Microsoft and the England Rugby squad for leadership tips. Where next? The Tescos Management Handbook? Make Your Employees Valued - Excellence at MacDonalds? How We Succeeded - Woolworths at the Top?
Now it seems that the Army's leadership have published a list of just 90 texts for young thrusting officers to read that rather reverses that trend. Now it's the Army looking to the bosses of Microsoft and the England Rugby squad for leadership tips. Where next? The Tescos Management Handbook? Make Your Employees Valued - Excellence at MacDonalds? How We Succeeded - Woolworths at the Top?
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It has often been remarked on that when a serious war breaks out most countries discover they have to fire any senior officer over about 45 - they have been fine (maybe) running a peacetime force but just don't have what it takes to fight a war.
keeping your paperwork in order and schmoozing politicians is not a core skill when the bullets start to fly
keeping your paperwork in order and schmoozing politicians is not a core skill when the bullets start to fly
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You know when we have only a third rate air force when threads elsewhere on PPRuNe read as follows....
RAF hit by £2m bill row | The Sun |News|Campaigns|Our Boys
£2M is a drop in the ocean in the over all scheme of things and really ought to be seen as a price worth paying especially if it does something to maintain our credibility abroad and with the prospect perhaps of securing the sale of aircraft to a friendly nation.
I can't recall similar noises about deployments, trails and lone rangers all part of "showing the flag" trips by both squadrons and smaller elements in the past. They were pretty routine affairs and nothing to get too worked-up about!
They were also very good at improving morale.....
RAF hit by £2m bill row | The Sun |News|Campaigns|Our Boys
£2M is a drop in the ocean in the over all scheme of things and really ought to be seen as a price worth paying especially if it does something to maintain our credibility abroad and with the prospect perhaps of securing the sale of aircraft to a friendly nation.
I can't recall similar noises about deployments, trails and lone rangers all part of "showing the flag" trips by both squadrons and smaller elements in the past. They were pretty routine affairs and nothing to get too worked-up about!
They were also very good at improving morale.....