Airbus A400M as a maritime aircraft ?
Roland, why be worried when the Norwegians have it covered with their P-3's in our glorious NATO alliance? 
keesje, as to your concern with pirats
I daresay rodent mathematicians are a massive threat!
(Fun with typos)
keesje, as to your concern with pirats
I daresay rodent mathematicians are a massive threat!
(Fun with typos)
I think you probably realize that you presented us with a self-contradictory scenario. If I tracked the conversation correctly, you were making fun of one of the assertions of A400M topping off during the mission, but I may have crossed wires on whose posts were up for response.
For those not aware, I'll name no names ... just as with fighters air to air refueling is typically not done while tactically engaged.
That said, I had to laugh at the mental picture you drew.
For those not aware, I'll name no names ... just as with fighters air to air refueling is typically not done while tactically engaged.
That said, I had to laugh at the mental picture you drew.
The only 'obvious' alternative to doing this would be to continue to do whatever it was one was doing, such as running in to release weapons and tanking at the same time. Which, of course, is not at all 'obvious' because it's barking mad.
But what I was really endeavouring to suggest that was Keesje's rebuttal of TOFO's point and the curt manner of it was nonsensical - which, I realise, was a complete waste of effort since Keesje is only here to lecture us and isn't open to debate or discussion on anything (MPA, MMA, Colonialism, TTPs, etc, etc, see PPrune, passim).
Last edited by Archimedes; 21st Mar 2013 at 15:04.
Then perhaps I should offer a
"Well played"
since I concur on all points.
"Well played"
since I concur on all points.
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Britain needs jobs, they won't get them by buying from the USA, however good the Poseidon is.
The Falklands !!
Look at a map Keesje. That is why a UK MPA needs a lot of
range and endurance. Especially if there are 60 billion barrels of oil there.
The Falklands !!
Look at a map Keesje. That is why a UK MPA needs a lot of
range and endurance. Especially if there are 60 billion barrels of oil there.
Last edited by Stuffy; 21st Mar 2013 at 19:48.
Britain needs jobs, they won't get them by buying from the USA, however good the Poseidon is.
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Without having to reread the whole thread ,but are the UK even reconsidering operating such a type of platform again or are you guys talking just purely hypothetical here ?
Wasn't the Nimrod supposed to be the last type ever?
Wasn't the Nimrod supposed to be the last type ever?
Someone a bit further up seems to have sorted out a partial answer to that:
Let the development happen and buy off the shelf if the next Defense Review restores that capability to the required base.
Not necessarily a bad acquisition strat, is it?
Let the development happen and buy off the shelf if the next Defense Review restores that capability to the required base.
Not necessarily a bad acquisition strat, is it?
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Perhaps you could explain in more detail?
I guess it all depends on the mission equipment layout and internal design as to how cramped the inside feels when flying for long periods.
Before anyone suggests it, I have no experience of operating a P8, but yes to operating a military 737NG.
Y_G
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Captain radar,
I understand that The Sun newspaper is looking for people who can write impressive one-liners. Leave your job as a Captain on a boating lake in Cleethorpes and take up a new job as a super-hack.
Of course the A400M can be redesigned as a dual role Maritime-Intel aircraft. With a bit of cargo carrying as well.
If the will is there, any aircraft can be redesigned.
The Comet was redesigned as the Nimrod, the fuselage is completely different.
The Poseidon cannot fly to the Falklands, which as an island near oil reserves will become increasingly important in the future. Peak oil has already been passed. A new airport with a very long runway, will need to be built, probably on East Falkland. The only alternate for Falklands, is Chile. Aircraft with plenty of fuel to spare will be needed.
I understand that The Sun newspaper is looking for people who can write impressive one-liners. Leave your job as a Captain on a boating lake in Cleethorpes and take up a new job as a super-hack.
Of course the A400M can be redesigned as a dual role Maritime-Intel aircraft. With a bit of cargo carrying as well.
If the will is there, any aircraft can be redesigned.
The Comet was redesigned as the Nimrod, the fuselage is completely different.
The Poseidon cannot fly to the Falklands, which as an island near oil reserves will become increasingly important in the future. Peak oil has already been passed. A new airport with a very long runway, will need to be built, probably on East Falkland. The only alternate for Falklands, is Chile. Aircraft with plenty of fuel to spare will be needed.
Stuffy, did you miss the part about air to air refueling? 
I'll also point out that A400M can't fly to the Falklands ... but then, you never did mention a starting point, did you?
I'll also point out that A400M can't fly to the Falklands ... but then, you never did mention a starting point, did you?
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 21st Mar 2013 at 23:06.
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Who or what is going to refuel the short range P8 ?
There is another island to refuel at, called Ascension.
The A400M has a refuelling probe. That is compatible with the A330 tanker.
Come on, go to bed, school in the morning.
There is another island to refuel at, called Ascension.
The A400M has a refuelling probe. That is compatible with the A330 tanker.
Come on, go to bed, school in the morning.
Last edited by Stuffy; 21st Mar 2013 at 23:33.
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Converting the A400M is an option, but it seems hardly a realistic or smart option.
Way to large, expensive, as said no bomb bay options. Space for crew rests, lavatory and galley options could surely beat those on the P3C though..
That said rewinging, re-engining, re-wiring, re-equipping 40-50 yr old frames has been approved before, so anything is possible.
Way to large, expensive, as said no bomb bay options. Space for crew rests, lavatory and galley options could surely beat those on the P3C though..
That said rewinging, re-engining, re-wiring, re-equipping 40-50 yr old frames has been approved before, so anything is possible.
Many are pointing out the lack of bomb bay in the A-400. LockMart has overcome this on the proposed Seaherk by extending the landing gear sponsons forward. Could this not be done for the Atlas?
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The design team at Airbus could sort this out easily.
What you have, is an aircraft with a lot of capacity and range. Good short field performance and yet at the same time is fast in the cruise at high level.
It is a flexible platform. Maritime, Elint and some freight. It also has a refuelling probe. Expensive, but a lot of bang for your buck. Governments and military are constantly moving the goalposts, the A400 Atlas, has wide goalposts.
Obviously a maritime version would be very different from a transport version, but the basics are there. In the future, its performance and capacity will be important.
As it stands, as a heavy transport, it would not fit the bill, as a maritime aircraft.
But its performance and capacity could be transformed into a very interesting aircraft.
Over to you, Mr Airbus.
What you have, is an aircraft with a lot of capacity and range. Good short field performance and yet at the same time is fast in the cruise at high level.
It is a flexible platform. Maritime, Elint and some freight. It also has a refuelling probe. Expensive, but a lot of bang for your buck. Governments and military are constantly moving the goalposts, the A400 Atlas, has wide goalposts.
Obviously a maritime version would be very different from a transport version, but the basics are there. In the future, its performance and capacity will be important.
As it stands, as a heavy transport, it would not fit the bill, as a maritime aircraft.
But its performance and capacity could be transformed into a very interesting aircraft.
Over to you, Mr Airbus.
Last edited by Stuffy; 22nd Mar 2013 at 00:32.
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Stuffy I've always been a serious A400M cheerleader, amazing machine.
But if it would up to Mr Airbus, they'll prefer an A320 NEO version. It has a usefull belly, more then enough cabin space and e.g. additional fuel tanks are off the shelf. It was discussed in the past. I guess many are waiting what the french will do. They have an old MPA fleet and fresh conflict insights. Airbus launched an A319 based MPA concept more the a decade ago for USN and India RFI 's.
A319 MPA Maritime Patrol Aircraft - Naval Technology
I think in the end UK, France, Germany will sit around the table and come to a joint basic MPA requirement.
But if it would up to Mr Airbus, they'll prefer an A320 NEO version. It has a usefull belly, more then enough cabin space and e.g. additional fuel tanks are off the shelf. It was discussed in the past. I guess many are waiting what the french will do. They have an old MPA fleet and fresh conflict insights. Airbus launched an A319 based MPA concept more the a decade ago for USN and India RFI 's.
A319 MPA Maritime Patrol Aircraft - Naval Technology
I think in the end UK, France, Germany will sit around the table and come to a joint basic MPA requirement.
Last edited by keesje; 22nd Mar 2013 at 08:29.
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Keesje wrote:
>I think in the end UK, France, Germany will sit around the table and come to a joint basic MPA requirement.
As you point out, likely to be a version of the A319/320/321 family, depending on national requirement.
It makes sense. Whether the UK needs the requirement now, is open to debate. Soon may not be soon enough ?
British Airways fly a Airbus A318 from New York direct to London City Airport.
Airbus A319 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
I still prefer four engines.
Welcome to the MPA Enterprise.
With large bomb doors, MAD boom, accommodation for a relief crew, extra fuel tanks, side cargo door(rear ramp and doors removed),powerful radar system,all the knobs and bells to hunt submarines and ships, Elint suit, Link 16/11/22, cruise missile launch,long time on station patrol, zoom camera system for observation. Something to deal with pirates. Finally a large price tag, which will not come from the aircraft, but all the kit inside it.
Such is the reliability of twin engined aircraft. Like Keesje, I suspect that eventually, Europe will go for Airbus A319 or A320.
>I think in the end UK, France, Germany will sit around the table and come to a joint basic MPA requirement.
As you point out, likely to be a version of the A319/320/321 family, depending on national requirement.
It makes sense. Whether the UK needs the requirement now, is open to debate. Soon may not be soon enough ?
British Airways fly a Airbus A318 from New York direct to London City Airport.
Airbus A319 Maritime Patrol Aircraft
I still prefer four engines.
Welcome to the MPA Enterprise.
With large bomb doors, MAD boom, accommodation for a relief crew, extra fuel tanks, side cargo door(rear ramp and doors removed),powerful radar system,all the knobs and bells to hunt submarines and ships, Elint suit, Link 16/11/22, cruise missile launch,long time on station patrol, zoom camera system for observation. Something to deal with pirates. Finally a large price tag, which will not come from the aircraft, but all the kit inside it.
Such is the reliability of twin engined aircraft. Like Keesje, I suspect that eventually, Europe will go for Airbus A319 or A320.
Last edited by Stuffy; 22nd Mar 2013 at 12:11.