Airbus A400M as a maritime aircraft ?
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BigGreenGilbert:
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About my twin prop multirole MPA concept
Elta, Bombardier Pursue Multi-Mission Aircraft Opportunities | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News
A naval version of the soon to be launched bigger ATR would come close too.
Tactics that weren't feasible / required in previous 25 years, could very be in the next 25 years, believe me. Operational requirements seem fluid these days..
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About my twin prop multirole MPA concept
Elta, Bombardier Pursue Multi-Mission Aircraft Opportunities | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News
A naval version of the soon to be launched bigger ATR would come close too.
Tactics that weren't feasible / required in previous 25 years, could very be in the next 25 years, believe me. Operational requirements seem fluid these days..
A 12 hour on station endurance, is essential.
If your base is in Sig, you don't need 1200 NM to get much of anywhere, for example. If your range to datum decreases, then on station time increases.
The Pacific mission is another matter, which I suspect informs the Air to Air refueling option.
keesje, "believe me" is a reach, sorry.
I am not convinced it is the right answer.
For ASW, it does not have enough time on station, to find submarines.
Why the US, Indian and Aussie navies think the P8 is OK?
Boeing have superb salesmen.
Boeing have superb salesmen.
About my twin prop multirole MPA concept
Elta and Bombardier are positioning this platform to meet Medium Range Maritime Patrol and Coastal Surveillance
Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 20th Mar 2013 at 12:34.
The P-8A's advantages are:
1 - It is big, with mongo radar, big-a$$ generators, lots of workstations, lots of sonobuoys, an internal weapon bay and hardpoints for other weapons. It is also big enough to carry DIRCMs, all the comms equipment you want &c without breaking much of a sweat.
2 - It has been heavily redesigned for the mission and is less like a 737 than most people think.
3 - Someone else has already paid for it.
1 - It is big, with mongo radar, big-a$$ generators, lots of workstations, lots of sonobuoys, an internal weapon bay and hardpoints for other weapons. It is also big enough to carry DIRCMs, all the comms equipment you want &c without breaking much of a sweat.
2 - It has been heavily redesigned for the mission and is less like a 737 than most people think.
3 - Someone else has already paid for it.
Stuffy
Who is not 12 years old.
Who is not 12 years old.
For ASW, it does not have enough time on station, to find submarines.
(Just a hint: Orion didn't work in isolation, it was part of a complex ASW system. So was Nimrod).
As to "super carrier" and "boomers" I wonder at what you believe boomer deployment patterns to be. Not thirty years ago, now.
Carriers tend to be threatened by SSN and SSK, though most boomers I know of have torps and would use them if they need to.
Elta and Bombardier are positioning this platform to meet Medium Range Maritime Patrol and Coastal Surveillance
EDIT:
While these two slides ought to be taken with a grain of salt ... being part of the Oz promotional material ... it points to where on station limits are expected. As depicted, the on station segment of the mission is proposed at low altitude.
http://defence.boeing.com.au/website...4_FINAL(1).pdf
See slide 4 of 22.
Also of interest are slides 17 and 18 which are "and the future looks so wonderful from here" estimates of platform growth. (How about more fuel, lads?
) Looks like the Navy can live with that.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 20th Mar 2013 at 15:29.
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Boeing P-8 Poseidon - in conjuntion with a UAV system, which is not BOGOF(buy one get one free).
Range: 1,200 nmi (2,222 km) 4 hours on station (Anti-submarine warfare mission)
In U.S. service, the Poseidon will be complemented by the Broad Area Maritime Surveillance UAV system, which will provide continuous surveillance. The system is expected to enter service around 2010. Around 40 UAVs based on the RQ-4 Global Hawk will be used in the program.
(source:Wikipedia)
The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced.
The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced | Mail Online
"American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy."
Range: 1,200 nmi (2,222 km) 4 hours on station (Anti-submarine warfare mission)
In U.S. service, the Poseidon will be complemented by the Broad Area Maritime Surveillance UAV system, which will provide continuous surveillance. The system is expected to enter service around 2010. Around 40 UAVs based on the RQ-4 Global Hawk will be used in the program.
(source:Wikipedia)
The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced.
The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced | Mail Online
"American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy."
Last edited by Stuffy; 20th Mar 2013 at 15:39.
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Quote:3 - Someone else has already paid for it.
How many UK jobs will be produced by buying the Boeing P8 ?
Today is budget day in the UK. The UK is bumping along the bottom in economic terms.
Capital projects produce work where there is none.
Come on BAe Systems, Airbus. Rise to the challenge.
How many UK jobs will be produced by buying the Boeing P8 ?
Today is budget day in the UK. The UK is bumping along the bottom in economic terms.
Capital projects produce work where there is none.
Come on BAe Systems, Airbus. Rise to the challenge.
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Quote:
Elta and Bombardier are positioning this platform to meet Medium Range Maritime Patrol and Coastal Surveillance
Elta and Bombardier are positioning this platform to meet Medium Range Maritime Patrol and Coastal Surveillance
The Bombardier Multi Mission design btw has a gunpod. Unthinkable in the P3/Nimrod era.
Not that I feel the Q400 is a practicle platform for MPA. No lower deck at all, requiring those bumps visible on the model..
The concept I sketched would be bigger and use new generation GE38/TP400 class engines (8-11k shp) and have a small booster APTU that also supports take-off close to (a high) MTOW.
The buddy-buddy equipment could be for 2 aircraft to lift off at MTOW and one topping up the other a few hours in the right direction before continuing to fly a shorter mission. An ( unlikely) 400MPA would have that as an option anyway.
How many UK jobs will be produced by buying the Boeing P8 ?
Last edited by keesje; 20th Mar 2013 at 16:55.
"American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board. By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier. According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy."
As if this never happened during the cold war with Charlie, Victor, and IIRC a Sierra.
Not to mention the poetic license used by the journo in this article.
Do you actually know anything about real life ASW? I'll bet the under.
Boeing P-8 Poseidon - in conjuntion with a UAV system, which is not BOGOF(buy one get one free).
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 20th Mar 2013 at 16:58.
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Re Chinese Sub
During a similar exercise, one of the Aussie subs technically had a firing solution
on one of the US Carriers and the US knew it was there and were looking for it ! So doesn't surprise me.
During a similar exercise, one of the Aussie subs technically had a firing solution
on one of the US Carriers and the US knew it was there and were looking for it ! So doesn't surprise me.
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Stuffy That's a big assumption to have that they didn't know the sub was there, I'm pretty sure the USN aren't advertising their detection capabilities
exercises with collins and others are limited to stress systems and I wouldn't put the class of chinese at the time in the same sentence
exercises with collins and others are limited to stress systems and I wouldn't put the class of chinese at the time in the same sentence
Last edited by JSFfan; 20th Mar 2013 at 17:15.
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Re: chinese sub
I have seen many of these reports greatfully adopted by US militairy/ congressman to support the need to spend even more on defense.
No threat is the biggest threat for many in the militairy-industrial complex.
Another example: Russian flyover takes Navy by surprise?
I have seen many of these reports greatfully adopted by US militairy/ congressman to support the need to spend even more on defense.
No threat is the biggest threat for many in the militairy-industrial complex.
Another example: Russian flyover takes Navy by surprise?
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there is a doco submariners by sbs on the collins on ex, it should be online.
what really upset the usn was when they broke roe and went active and still couldn't find it
what really upset the usn was when they broke roe and went active and still couldn't find it
Last edited by JSFfan; 20th Mar 2013 at 17:55.
The buddy-buddy equipment could be for 2 aircraft to lift off at MTOW and one topping up the other a few hours in the right direction before continuing to fly a shorter mission. An ( unlikely) 400MPA would have that as an option anyway.
And no, the A400MPA would need to have a centreline hose fitted for another one to be able to receive. If that is an option (I don't think it is) then the tanker variant won't be doing MPA as well. Back to that mutual exclusivity again.
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JSF
Yes, I have seen that, although I read of the success
on the DoD web site at one point. I think the Sub Capt
was quite pleased.
Re No threat is the greatest threat, I agree.
Yes, I have seen that, although I read of the success
on the DoD web site at one point. I think the Sub Capt
was quite pleased.
Re No threat is the greatest threat, I agree.
Last edited by 500N; 20th Mar 2013 at 17:57.
heh, I've been in no few exercises where our own SSN's snuck about and the first we finally found of them, after quite a bit of searching, was the infamous green flare indicating an attack.
ASW's hard.
ASW's hard.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 20th Mar 2013 at 19:15.
LO has it - its already in production.
IF range is such an issue, look at retrofitting a boom to some of those A330 tankers you guys have. Yes, it would add to that programs cost, but it would solve two other problems as well (EC and C17).
IF range is such an issue, look at retrofitting a boom to some of those A330 tankers you guys have. Yes, it would add to that programs cost, but it would solve two other problems as well (EC and C17).
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And no, the A400MPA would need to have a centreline hose fitted for another one to be able to receive. If that is an option (I don't think it is) then the tanker variant won't be doing MPA as well. Back to that mutual exclusivity again.
