RAF Rivet Joint
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 42
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From: Vienna, Virginia
RAF Boom Refuelling Requirements
Just some points to remember:
- Two important RAF assets, the C-17s and the upcoming Rivet Joints, are only boom capable.
- Flow rates are about one-third less using probe and drogue which makes a difference with large on-loads for big aircraft.
- Boom refuelling is easier in turbulent air and reduces pilot finesse and fatigue
- Any boom can be fitted with a drogue
There are some advantages in probe and drogue systems, including ease of modification (US Navy aircraft only need to carry a pod).
First RAF electronic warfare officers began training this week.
- Two important RAF assets, the C-17s and the upcoming Rivet Joints, are only boom capable.
- Flow rates are about one-third less using probe and drogue which makes a difference with large on-loads for big aircraft.
- Boom refuelling is easier in turbulent air and reduces pilot finesse and fatigue
- Any boom can be fitted with a drogue
There are some advantages in probe and drogue systems, including ease of modification (US Navy aircraft only need to carry a pod).
First RAF electronic warfare officers began training this week.
Last edited by NoVANav; 26th January 2013 at 16:53.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 530
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From: Island of Aphrodite
Surely the obvious solution (and therefore the one that will not be adopted) is to convert three of the Voyager orders to MRTTs. The later Voyagers have not been built yet or even started so the change should not be a problem for Airbus.
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
"Surely the obvious solution (and therefore the one that will not be adopted) is to convert three of the Voyager orders to MRTTs. The later Voyagers have not been built yet or even started so the change should not be a problem for Airbus."
They are under a PFI contract, any changes would surely just allow Airtanker to squeeze the MoD for a nice tidy sum?
They are under a PFI contract, any changes would surely just allow Airtanker to squeeze the MoD for a nice tidy sum?
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 356
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From: the heathen lands
there would have to be a cost - however the mitigation is AirTankers costs are likely to be minimal if the decision were to be made now, and thereforefairly easily absorbed by MOD - and political: if AirTanker quote a ridiculous price the MOD can start making noises in the media about dodgy PFI deals, and whether its lawyers should start looking at whether they can be ditched.
the government has a somewhat larger stick than AT - it writes the law.
the government has a somewhat larger stick than AT - it writes the law.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
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From: Lincolnshire
Joined: Apr 2008
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,960
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From: The Whyte House
There is, apparently, talk of extending Waddo's runway to the South.
A quick look on Google Earth suggests, in theory, another couple of thousand feet could be added.
Presumably the extra 2000' can be folded away and packed in the back of a C-17 whenever the RJ deploys to a similarly inadequately runwayed airfield.
A quick look on Google Earth suggests, in theory, another couple of thousand feet could be added.
Presumably the extra 2000' can be folded away and packed in the back of a C-17 whenever the RJ deploys to a similarly inadequately runwayed airfield.
Last edited by Willard Whyte; 26th January 2013 at 10:14.
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 674
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From: UK East Anglia
"There is, apparently, talk of extending Waddo's runway to the South."
WW statement stired up memories of the first Nimrod R take off at 109,000 lb ZFW. I can't rememeber when probably 1990 somethin. Bill Bateman was our weight and ballance engineer and suggested selling tickets in a grandstand by Burge's Garage. Bill was brilliant. I remember taking the a/c down to Boscombe to weigh it post a big mod we had completed. he was only one pound out and quite close to the CoG. (so much of the weight was electric string)
All this talk of flight refuelling probes is getting me down. Should the need arise I am sure the treasury would spring the cash. Marshall turned the C130s round in 19 days back in 1982. It may take a month now!!
Oh and most of our radios in those days were of US origin. Have Quick WW and even the RC HF9000 (first use of fibre optic on an RAF A/C) we used the GPS to time the radios. it took an age to get clearance to feed the twin Carosel IN and Tacan from the GPS. had a similar problem on the C130 a couple of years back (with clearances) so as back in Nimrod days declared UDI and fitted a stand alone system.
DA
WW statement stired up memories of the first Nimrod R take off at 109,000 lb ZFW. I can't rememeber when probably 1990 somethin. Bill Bateman was our weight and ballance engineer and suggested selling tickets in a grandstand by Burge's Garage. Bill was brilliant. I remember taking the a/c down to Boscombe to weigh it post a big mod we had completed. he was only one pound out and quite close to the CoG. (so much of the weight was electric string)
All this talk of flight refuelling probes is getting me down. Should the need arise I am sure the treasury would spring the cash. Marshall turned the C130s round in 19 days back in 1982. It may take a month now!!
Oh and most of our radios in those days were of US origin. Have Quick WW and even the RC HF9000 (first use of fibre optic on an RAF A/C) we used the GPS to time the radios. it took an age to get clearance to feed the twin Carosel IN and Tacan from the GPS. had a similar problem on the C130 a couple of years back (with clearances) so as back in Nimrod days declared UDI and fitted a stand alone system.
DA
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 42
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From: Vienna, Virginia
Ref #151
No. At Offutt. RJ training is at the 55th Wing.
Basic EW training is at Pensacola. The RJ-specific training is done at Offutt. They have a great simulator for the entire backend.
Basic EW training is at Pensacola. The RJ-specific training is done at Offutt. They have a great simulator for the entire backend.
Last edited by NoVANav; 26th January 2013 at 16:54.
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: The Whyte House
They'd better hurry up then - there's either the Eastern Lincoln Bypass and/or 35,000 houses going on that land !!
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: at the end of the bar
I notice 'Squarebasher' in Private Eye having a go at the Rivet Joint acquisition.
It's the usual mix of rumopurs and speculation, but one of his points caught my eye - is the RJ procurement under a UOR?
It's the usual mix of rumopurs and speculation, but one of his points caught my eye - is the RJ procurement under a UOR?
Last edited by XV277; 20th February 2013 at 22:49.
