Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

RAF Rivet Joint

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 26th Jan 2014, 15:13
  #381 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 82
Posts: 4,764
Received 228 Likes on 71 Posts
I daresay that you are right, EAP86. The issue isn't that an RTS is still to be granted, but rather on what basis it will be if it is granted. In short can the airworthiness of this aircraft, or for that matter any other aircraft, be assured by the MAA, and if so how? The regulations and procedures have been lost together with the people who knew about both.


If you set out to subvert and suborn, all the above must be lost or they can be produced as evidence of your illegal acts. Once lost they can only be regained by a long and arduous process of reform, outside of your malevolent control. The MAA (and the MAAIB) as presently constituted cannot do that. The present default of rewriting those regulations and procedures from a new Year Zero is a nonsense, just as it would be if any other Regulator tried to do it.


Grounding fleets, or refusing and delaying the RTS of new ones, does not signify competent regulation. Only the continuous uninterrupted maintenance and enforcement of gradually evolving Regulations and Procedures does that... but they weren't.
Chugalug2 is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2014, 15:21
  #382 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where-ever nav's chooses....
Posts: 834
Received 46 Likes on 26 Posts
You forget process, especially "safety case" process rules all.
alfred_the_great is online now  
Old 26th Jan 2014, 16:21
  #383 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 3,225
Received 172 Likes on 65 Posts
You forget process, especially "safety case" process rules all.
Maintained Build Standard > valid Safety Case > valid Release To Service.

A simple chain, and break any link or fail to demonstrate each is intact, and the RTS cannot be issued. That is the systemic and organisational failure that led to the Nimrod Review and cancellation of MRA4.

In the case of Rivet Joint, the mandated regulations imposed on DEC and procurers would require them to confirm the robustness of this audit trail before even seeking approval to proceed. The scrutineers must verify it before granting approval. And, throughout the entire procurement and in-service phases, it must be the subject of continuous assessment.

What can go wrong if you follow the regs? We know what goes wrong if you don't. ZD576. XV230. XV179. ZG710. MoD/MAA are on record as agreeing with the instructions not to.
tucumseh is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2014, 09:17
  #384 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Here
Posts: 1,709
Received 38 Likes on 23 Posts
Originally Posted by Just This Once...

I understand that the 2nd aircraft will enter production this year with the final one some time after that.
The third is/was still serving on operations as a USAF tanker last year.
Davef68 is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2014, 11:17
  #385 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
RAF Waddington in line for £35.4m runway upgrade | Lincolnshire Echo

Must be about to close then.
Al R is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2014, 11:28
  #386 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It wasn't that long ago that a significant proportion of the runway was 'refurbished'.
Willard Whyte is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2014, 11:35
  #387 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"During the rebuild, aircraft will temporarily relocate to alternative operating bases across the county."

Massive undertaking to take all the groundscrew as well.
Al R is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2014, 12:12
  #388 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I suppose Coningsby is the obvious choice. It means the crews can be dic..., err, shuttled around as required.
Willard Whyte is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2014, 14:53
  #389 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,564
Likes: 0
Received 45 Likes on 30 Posts
"I suppose Coningsby is the obvious choice. It means the crews can be dic..., err, shuttled around as required"


..to say nothing of the T&S Budget savings.
Wensleydale is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2014, 15:29
  #390 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK/ USA
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Will there be some form of RTS (limited evidence) ready to let the ac fly anywhere before the rwy is dug up.
Jet In Vitro is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2014, 15:30
  #391 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 80
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I bet we could do with RJ around at the moment...............
Wander00 is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2014, 16:33
  #392 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Canada
Posts: 359
Received 8 Likes on 3 Posts
I am sure they are busy already.
Avtur is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 22:17
  #393 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In a world of my own.
Posts: 380
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Cranwell is not too far away!
AARON O'DICKYDIDO is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2014, 22:56
  #394 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
OK for Shadow, perhaps for Sentinel, not so good for the bigger boys.
Willard Whyte is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2014, 00:01
  #395 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: liverpool uk
Age: 67
Posts: 1,338
Received 16 Likes on 5 Posts
Why not Scampton for everyday use and somewhere else for major servicing. How long will it take to resurface the runway, is the other question, could it be done on a 24 hour a day basis?

RJ, send them to Mildenhall, if that's an option if they cannot use Scampton or another station.
air pig is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2014, 10:10
  #396 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Leicestershire, England
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Runway resurfacing is not an excessively long process, a crew did Schipol airport a few years back at night, over a period of a couple of weeks I seem to remember and, the airport remained operational at all other times...

Surely Mildenahll would be the obvious bolthole? All the engineering and ground support is already in place, it would just need the RAF air/ground crews to complete the picture?

-RP
Rhino power is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2014, 10:21
  #397 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Old Hampshire
Age: 68
Posts: 631
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
The important thing for the RJ isn't the resurfaced existing runway, its how much longer they are going to make it, so that the first thing an RJ doesn't have to do once airborn is go look for a boom equipped tanker.
VX275 is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2014, 11:16
  #398 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,812
Received 137 Likes on 64 Posts
My reading of the scenario is that it is a complete rebuild (and extension) which involves creating multiple layers of a new deep substrate. Resurfacing is a different, and relatively simple, task ...

... unless, as happened at Scampton in the 80s, the contractors didn't bother with the friction course as they were running out of time/money. Day One of ops on the new surface, on a rainy day, revealed a skating rink. "Stand down Scampton Wing."
MPN11 is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2014, 18:30
  #399 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Canada
Posts: 359
Received 8 Likes on 3 Posts
The important thing for the RJ isn't the resurfaced existing runway, its how much longer they are going to make it, so that the first thing an RJ doesn't have to do once airborn is go look for a boom equipped tanker.
Exactly! I believe the issue that was raised circa 2008 when mumblings of RJ were becoming more pronounced, was that the Waddo runway was short by about 1000 ft for an ops sortie of any useful length, as the USAF ODM required the field lengths to be factored.

Lets hope things changed...

BTW; the R1 used Conningsby during the big dig of 2004.
Avtur is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2014, 18:35
  #400 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Canada
Posts: 359
Received 8 Likes on 3 Posts
Oh, and talking of boom tankers, how does the UK plan to do "National" sneaky-beaky missions that require AAR?
Avtur is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.