MPA announced 2015?
This thread is entitled "MPA announced 2015?". The question mark implies that it is actually a question - to which the short answer is NO! As to the long answer...
A couple of points to consider. First of all, the proposed SDSR in 2015. When exactly is this SDSR going to be held? The next UK general election is on 7th May 2015. So, is the SDSR held before then? If it is, and the current lot don't stay in power, then an incoming Labour government will wish to make its own assessment rather than follow a coalition plan. If an SDSR is delayed until after the election and Labour get in, they aren't obliged to hold one at all, and if they do it will at a time of their own choosing, which might not be until 2016/17. Even if the coalition get back in, I can't see them having an SDSR before the election, so it probably wouldn't be until very late 2015 even in this (unlikely) scenario.
Even if there is an SDSR around about 2015, it doesn't alter the fact that the country will still be broke, and defence isn't a vote winner. We will have pulled our troops back from Afghanistan by then, and I can only see more reductions being required in order to save money, such as cut backs to the Army, the SH, fleet, etc. Extra expenditure on a "new" capability just isn't going to happen.
So take off the rose tinted glasses. While the UK may indeed need some form of fixed wing, land based, maritime patrol aircraft, the reality of the situation is such that it is highly unlikely to be ordered as the result of a 2015 SDSR!
A couple of points to consider. First of all, the proposed SDSR in 2015. When exactly is this SDSR going to be held? The next UK general election is on 7th May 2015. So, is the SDSR held before then? If it is, and the current lot don't stay in power, then an incoming Labour government will wish to make its own assessment rather than follow a coalition plan. If an SDSR is delayed until after the election and Labour get in, they aren't obliged to hold one at all, and if they do it will at a time of their own choosing, which might not be until 2016/17. Even if the coalition get back in, I can't see them having an SDSR before the election, so it probably wouldn't be until very late 2015 even in this (unlikely) scenario.
Even if there is an SDSR around about 2015, it doesn't alter the fact that the country will still be broke, and defence isn't a vote winner. We will have pulled our troops back from Afghanistan by then, and I can only see more reductions being required in order to save money, such as cut backs to the Army, the SH, fleet, etc. Extra expenditure on a "new" capability just isn't going to happen.
So take off the rose tinted glasses. While the UK may indeed need some form of fixed wing, land based, maritime patrol aircraft, the reality of the situation is such that it is highly unlikely to be ordered as the result of a 2015 SDSR!
Last edited by Biggus; 19th Nov 2012 at 20:38.
Maybe, but not very likely.....
Further evidence that we are still going to be broke in 2015:
Industry: 60% of U.K. ‘White Board’ Programs Could Be Cut | Defense News | defensenews.com
Indeed someones just started a new thread on the basis of this article!
Further evidence that we are still going to be broke in 2015:
Industry: 60% of U.K. ‘White Board’ Programs Could Be Cut | Defense News | defensenews.com
Indeed someones just started a new thread on the basis of this article!
BEagle.
The three squadrons of Neptune MR1's based along side Vanguard Flight st Topcliffe WERE used as MPA though.
The three squadrons of Neptune MR1's based along side Vanguard Flight st Topcliffe WERE used as MPA though.
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Loving all the absolute tosh spoken about ASW on this thread! As they say, a little bit of knowledge...
Heathrow Harry, see the Fincastle 84 post...
Heathrow Harry, see the Fincastle 84 post...
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Your opinion Biggus but there is evidence out there saying otherwise so I think your wrong. Oh, and I don't wear spectacles rose-tinted or otherwise!
As has already been suggested on this thread - amongst all the usual tosh about MPA platforms - getting a new kite in is only a small part of the problem. An operational MPA force needs a support element of 2000-3000 people (perhaps a bit less if we re-establish the capability within RN). That's a whole lot of people to recruit/train and pay.
On the other hand I believe there is new ad out for recruiting WSOPs, including WSOPs for ASW duties...is this just a **** up, or does someone know something is in the offing??
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1453Flt Neptunes
Beagle you were right the four Neptunes on 1453Flt were not MPA, however, they were not used for anything clandestine either.
They were conducting AEW trials from Jan 53 to Jun 56, I have been to Kew and have their trials report and version of the Fm540. Both make very interesting reading and their results are one of the main reasons that we didn't get an RAF overland AEW capabilty until 1972! Now there's a capability gap for you!
Ian
They were conducting AEW trials from Jan 53 to Jun 56, I have been to Kew and have their trials report and version of the Fm540. Both make very interesting reading and their results are one of the main reasons that we didn't get an RAF overland AEW capabilty until 1972! Now there's a capability gap for you!
Ian
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EW 73
Being a 3rd seater myself I am well aware of the benefits of a 3 crew flight deck especially when operating low level in the Nimrod however, we were discussing low cost and quick procurement options for a UK MPA platform.
P3s are old aeroplanes that would require a refit and probably cost more overall with support equipment for the air vehicle as well as the on board kit not to mention the time scales involved.
The UK has already paid for the aircraft ( C130J) which means they would require the MPA fit only timescales would also be favourable. No one is suggesting they shut down engines like a P3 or a Nimrod, frankly shutting down perfectly serviceable engines whilst operating at 200' used to scare the S*** out of me!
Being a 3rd seater myself I am well aware of the benefits of a 3 crew flight deck especially when operating low level in the Nimrod however, we were discussing low cost and quick procurement options for a UK MPA platform.
P3s are old aeroplanes that would require a refit and probably cost more overall with support equipment for the air vehicle as well as the on board kit not to mention the time scales involved.
The UK has already paid for the aircraft ( C130J) which means they would require the MPA fit only timescales would also be favourable. No one is suggesting they shut down engines like a P3 or a Nimrod, frankly shutting down perfectly serviceable engines whilst operating at 200' used to scare the S*** out of me!
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Neptune...their results are one of the main reasons that we didn't get an RAF overland
AEW capabilty until 1972!
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- amongst all the usual tosh about MPA platforms -
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- amongst all the usual tosh about MPA platforms -
The sad part is that those in power seem to have the same total lack of knowledge
Last edited by MFC_Fly; 20th Nov 2012 at 10:57.
with obviously no MPA experience
...have I got one yet?
Last edited by The B Word; 20th Nov 2012 at 20:35.
