Gliding - a question to the military guys
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Thanks Guys!
Hi Guys,
First I must apologise for the delay in replying to all your posts. I have been away for a few days and am only now catching up on my various forms of mail.
I should like to thank all who replied. The serious replies were instructive and the humourous ones gave me a laugh.
As you will have guessed, I am a private pilot with some previous gliding experience. The reason for my question was this; most private pilots, (including me,) who were previously glider pilots are definite that their previous gliding experience had in some way contributed to their skill either flying power or at least when first learning to fly power.
However, the private pilot obviously flies a slow light aeroplane with a low wing loading. It occured to me to wonder whether any of the benefit of gliding continued further on into the world of flying (or learning to fly) much heavier metal at much higher airspeeds.
Once again, my thanks to one and all.
Go safely, Guys, wherever you are.
BP.
First I must apologise for the delay in replying to all your posts. I have been away for a few days and am only now catching up on my various forms of mail.
I should like to thank all who replied. The serious replies were instructive and the humourous ones gave me a laugh.
As you will have guessed, I am a private pilot with some previous gliding experience. The reason for my question was this; most private pilots, (including me,) who were previously glider pilots are definite that their previous gliding experience had in some way contributed to their skill either flying power or at least when first learning to fly power.
However, the private pilot obviously flies a slow light aeroplane with a low wing loading. It occured to me to wonder whether any of the benefit of gliding continued further on into the world of flying (or learning to fly) much heavier metal at much higher airspeeds.
Once again, my thanks to one and all.
Go safely, Guys, wherever you are.
BP.
BP,
You make a good point about the early days of powered flying, but I think the effect of previous flying experience of any sort is superceded by student's more recent, intensive flying training.
To address a point made earlier, I agree that light powered flight pre-pilot training could work both ways. I don't think my PPL course did me much good at all when I got to Linton-on-Ouse.
Courtney
You make a good point about the early days of powered flying, but I think the effect of previous flying experience of any sort is superceded by student's more recent, intensive flying training.
To address a point made earlier, I agree that light powered flight pre-pilot training could work both ways. I don't think my PPL course did me much good at all when I got to Linton-on-Ouse.
Courtney
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Originally Posted by BroomstickPilot
As you will have guessed, I am a private pilot with some previous gliding experience. The reason for my question was this; most private pilots, (including me,) who were previously glider pilots are definite that their previous gliding experience had in some way contributed to their skill either flying power or at least when first learning to fly power.
Gliding over mountainous areas in nice weather with waves has given me some of my finest moments in the air this far. Makes me wish I had begun gliding before I joined.
Last edited by LS-4; 4th Oct 2012 at 11:16.
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Gliding obviously instils good basic stick and rudder skills from the start, but military flying involves much more than that. The military pilot requires those skills as basic tools in order to begin to train to do a military job, not just to fly an aircraft.
A broader aviation background results in a better understanding of problems and limitations faced by other aviators. This is similar to those car drivers who have previously ridden a motorcycle; they understand more about road surfaces, drain covers, white lining, checking mirrors, defensive driving, etc and will give motorcyclists due consideration.
A broader aviation background results in a better understanding of problems and limitations faced by other aviators. This is similar to those car drivers who have previously ridden a motorcycle; they understand more about road surfaces, drain covers, white lining, checking mirrors, defensive driving, etc and will give motorcyclists due consideration.
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Foreign equivalent to VGS
Just received my VGS medical - without restriction! Had my medical at St Athan in Sept 2012, finally granted in Feb 2013.
Anyway, now that my application to become a CGI is almost complete, I was wondering if there any foreign equivalents to our Volunteer Gliding Squadrons? Do any other countries operate such gliding squadrons for their youth?
Anyway, now that my application to become a CGI is almost complete, I was wondering if there any foreign equivalents to our Volunteer Gliding Squadrons? Do any other countries operate such gliding squadrons for their youth?
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I fly gliders and powered and would def say that gliding helped me when I went over to the dark side. However previous posters have a very valid point in that military flying isn't just about pole skills; it's about being able to operate the machine as a weapon.
I would say that initially someone with a couple of hundred hours in a glider and with XC experience would fare better than someone who had only been pax on an airliner before; but once the basic pole skills had been learned and you went off to FJ that the difference would probably have been eliminated.
The other thing that helped me when I went powered was my years as an avionics guy in the mob. I knew what all nav and radio nav kit did and how it worked before I sat in the cockpit.
Just had a look at my logbook and I went solo powered on my fifth flight and finished the whole shooting match well under the min time as I also did with my night and IMC rating. That's not due to any super piloting abilities on my part, more due I'm convinced to my past experience as a glider jock and instrument guy. (And also the excellent instructors I had.)
I would say that initially someone with a couple of hundred hours in a glider and with XC experience would fare better than someone who had only been pax on an airliner before; but once the basic pole skills had been learned and you went off to FJ that the difference would probably have been eliminated.
The other thing that helped me when I went powered was my years as an avionics guy in the mob. I knew what all nav and radio nav kit did and how it worked before I sat in the cockpit.
Just had a look at my logbook and I went solo powered on my fifth flight and finished the whole shooting match well under the min time as I also did with my night and IMC rating. That's not due to any super piloting abilities on my part, more due I'm convinced to my past experience as a glider jock and instrument guy. (And also the excellent instructors I had.)
I went solo on my lynx conversion, as did all the course I think.
We certainly didn't send students off with an empty left seat when I was QHIing on Lynx Flight. If for no other reason than for their ability to be able to cope with any FRC action in the event of any emergency.
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Lynx solo
Are you sure? Just checked my logbook, and my "first solo" on my course was with an experienced crewman. That was in 1986.
Why wouldn't I be sure? I did 0.6 solo on June 27th 1980. Not sure what your log book entries have to do with what I did on my course.
Why wouldn't I be sure? I did 0.6 solo on June 27th 1980. Not sure what your log book entries have to do with what I did on my course.
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Did my Lynx course in Jan '80 and yes on checking my logbook and I too had an hour's GFP solo as well as what looks like a couple of circuits doing u/s loads. My first Lynx "solo" however was with one of our squadron crewmen.
Must have been a change in policy later - perhaps the penny pinching had already started. I remember when the first "moratorium" kicked off in BOAR and COS 4Bde called the Boss and suggested that we fly the Lynx around on one engine to save fuel! F*ck off he explained!
God, that seems a lifetime ago but the memory's still very strong - happy days
Wiz
Soz for the thread drift...
(Did I really just say "soz" - time for a nap methinks)
Must have been a change in policy later - perhaps the penny pinching had already started. I remember when the first "moratorium" kicked off in BOAR and COS 4Bde called the Boss and suggested that we fly the Lynx around on one engine to save fuel! F*ck off he explained!
God, that seems a lifetime ago but the memory's still very strong - happy days
Wiz
Soz for the thread drift...
(Did I really just say "soz" - time for a nap methinks)
Not sure what your log book entries have to do with what I did on my course.
Things had obviously changed since 1980.
Apologies for entering such an environment, but as a humble flight nurse and tea maker for the sky gods upfront working on Lear's and Cheyenne's, can someone enlighten me as to what a 'wave' is in relation to gliders. Only ever flown in one once, felt more secure with an engine in front in the 'chippie' as a young space cadet.
Regards
AP.
Regards
AP.
From; North Wales Gliding Club website
To keep flying, gliders need lift from the surrounding air. One form of lift is wave lift. This is caused when the wind blows across a feature in the landscape such as a hill or mountain and, if the wind is of sufficient strength, then the airflow begins to oscillate up and down like a large wave. This sort of lift is glider heaven. Wave systems can provide lift up to 20,000 feet and is very smooth to fly in.
Hope this helps.
To keep flying, gliders need lift from the surrounding air. One form of lift is wave lift. This is caused when the wind blows across a feature in the landscape such as a hill or mountain and, if the wind is of sufficient strength, then the airflow begins to oscillate up and down like a large wave. This sort of lift is glider heaven. Wave systems can provide lift up to 20,000 feet and is very smooth to fly in.
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Not really and as I sit here 37000' above Norway thanks to a natty little airline offering free wi-fi, I still believe a Meagre one engine is better than none (although 4 is better at this height!)
Broomstick,
I'm not qualified to answer your question, as I have never been a military pilot. So this is off topic - sorry....
However, I have more stick hours in gliders than in powered.
For what it's worth, I remember reaching a stage where I decided that gliding was much more rewarding than powered flight as a fly for fun pilot, and the flight hours just started to rack up.
Things that may be relevant to any pilot:
When the stage of unconscious competence in basic flying skills is reached, you can then go on to learn new (military?) stuff more easily. I suspect gliding experience just accelerates the acquisition of the unconscious competence stage.
I'm not qualified to answer your question, as I have never been a military pilot. So this is off topic - sorry....
However, I have more stick hours in gliders than in powered.
For what it's worth, I remember reaching a stage where I decided that gliding was much more rewarding than powered flight as a fly for fun pilot, and the flight hours just started to rack up.
Things that may be relevant to any pilot:
- First single seater flight. (Prefect) New single seater types were not a problem after this.
- First solo aerotow. After working too hard and overcorrecting, the penny finally dropped, and I just formated on the tug and let the rope do the work.
- First crowded thermal. A dozen or more gliders in one thermal, some outclimbing others, certainly teaches the necessity of a good lookout and situational awareness linked with attitude flying.
- First field landing. (Failed Siver C attempt). Don't cramp the circuit. Allow a generous final to adjust airbrakes
- Being caught out in sink with the airfield on the horizon. Get the nose down and increase speed! The only way to have a chance of getting back.
- Awareness of the terrain - landable within gliding range? Taught me never to fly a single engined AC over unlandable terrain, and never to stake my life on a single engine. Also never wanted to fly single engine at night.
When the stage of unconscious competence in basic flying skills is reached, you can then go on to learn new (military?) stuff more easily. I suspect gliding experience just accelerates the acquisition of the unconscious competence stage.
To keep flying, gliders need lift from the surrounding air. One form of lift is wave lift. This is caused when the wind blows across a feature in the landscape such as a hill or mountain and, if the wind is of sufficient strength, then the airflow begins to oscillate up and down like a large wave. This sort of lift is glider heaven. Wave systems can provide lift up to 20,000 feet and is very smooth to fly in.
I think this is a bit pessimistic given that the absolute height world record in wave is 50,721ft! The bit about glider heaven is however correct.
I think this is a bit pessimistic given that the absolute height world record in wave is 50,721ft! The bit about glider heaven is however correct.
Last edited by bspatz; 27th Feb 2013 at 13:01.
Bspatz, I'm with you. Nothing beats the thrill of doing a climb in the rough-as-old-boots rotor and then encountering the smooth, silky wave lift and just a quiet hiss in your ears from the laminar flow as you watch the altimeter winding up.
Best fun you can have with your clothes on IMHO!
Best fun you can have with your clothes on IMHO!