Gliding - a question to the military guys
Thought you were referring to your conversion course.
Reading through these posts, valid as they are they all seem to concentrate on the flying skill side that gliding may, or may not, teach you. In my book the biggest beneifit of all comes for free - it teaches teamwork & responsibility for your actions, you need a good, responsible team around you before you can get airborne & you have to be part of it.
How could anyone actually know whether or not gliding helped them? They can't do the course twice, once with gliding experience and once without. 
I didn't notice any difference at all in the students I taught who'd been glider pilots, tbh. There seemed to be several other qualities and facts about them that would adjust their likelihood of success far before a few hundred hours of gliding.
I've found that some students with small amounts of PPL-style experience are worse off than students starting from scratch, though. Unless you've done enough GA flying to make it second nature, and ensure that you've developed some real airmanship, a small number of PPL hours will result in some "unlearning" required to avoid negative transfer.
I didn't notice any difference at all in the students I taught who'd been glider pilots, tbh. There seemed to be several other qualities and facts about them that would adjust their likelihood of success far before a few hundred hours of gliding.
I've found that some students with small amounts of PPL-style experience are worse off than students starting from scratch, though. Unless you've done enough GA flying to make it second nature, and ensure that you've developed some real airmanship, a small number of PPL hours will result in some "unlearning" required to avoid negative transfer.
Having been a staff cadet at 637VGS in the 80's, I can say that it definitely helped me achieve my goal of gaining my wings in the RAF. It wasn't just the flying, but the development of myself as an individual and team member. I will always be grateful to the then CO (G.G) and his instructors. I had a fantastic time and always look back with a smile and gratitude. It was nice a few years later to say thankyou by flying the CO in one of HMG's helicopters.
Gentleman Aviator
Wasn't the pilot of the A330 that landed in the Hudson River a glider pilot in his spare time,
And the Air Canada pilot that landed the fuel-free B767 at Gimli many years ago was a glider pilot and the Air Transat A330 pilot that landed at Lajes with a double flameout was also a glider pilot,
BTW it was an A320 that went into the Hudson.
BTW it was an A320 that went into the Hudson.
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Gliding teaches you a great deal about the basics about angle of attack, stalling, and the dangers of trying to stretchhhhhhh a glide to make the tarmac
You also learn to keep a good lookout for traffic and to watch for electricty lines and fences etc at low level
plus its a lot of fun and QUIET
You also learn to keep a good lookout for traffic and to watch for electricty lines and fences etc at low level
plus its a lot of fun and QUIET
I didn't notice any difference at all in the students I taught who'd been glider pilots,
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Yellow Sun and 5 Forward 6 Back argue from the experience of instructing a full military training course. I do not think they have countered the basic proposition. The intensity of such training (in time-honoured RAF practice) means that, as the students get to the FHT, all have to get exactly right the drills and manoeuvres required for the particular aircraft. At that stage the students’ background is history; the question is: have they acquired the necessary precision to pass the examination on our aircraft ?
YS was also a bit sharp about 1.3vStall not quoting his own experience. He should be careful what he wishes for …
I was at Cranwell 1958-61 - Piston Provosts and Meteors in the second and third years. A good chum of mine was chopped in the first few hours at the beginning of the second year. He was a London lad who had not even learned to ride a bike. He must have demonstrated the aptitude at Hornchurch (as it was then) but the system in effect failed him for his not developing the motor skills that pilotage calls for. It was obvious to the rest of us, with our air experience, our gliding, our flying scholarships etc that we had arrived on the course with initial momentum that he clearly lacked.
By the end of my training, the management was fairly clear that there was no Air Marshal’s baton in my knapsack and vaguely wondered if they could throw me out. For them the snag was that I had been gliding on the North Airfield at HM’s expense for over two years and had become, in my turn, Captain of Gliding. The officer in charge was able to tell them that on North Airfield I was doing all that good leadership and management that they could not detect in the College setting (Sqn Ldr Dougie Bridson AFC – if you are still around – I salute you).
Much more important to me was the flying and the captaincy. While my solo hours on the Meteor was only just enough to progress my learning, I really needed more and I got it in the trusty Olympia. Landing away, doing my own “Silver C” cross country, crewing for all the other young pilots when they landed away – that all added up to extra experience as a young aircraft captain.
One lovely evening, the woods at the edge of the North Airfield exhaled a great bubble of warm air into the hazy fading blue sky. I was in the right place, with a glider and barograph ready for launch. Well over an hour later, having continuously manoeuvred inside this burgeoning Cu Nim (using just a Turn & Slip, a DI, an ASI and a Variometer) I finally straightened up and flew West into the evening sun with a “Gold C” climb of 3000 metres on the barograph and a huge wodge of ice on the wings each side of the cockpit. Not long after that I flew my final Instrument Rating Test on the Meteor. That test might normally be more critical for a student than the Final Handling Test. It never occurred to me, that summer, that I could fail it.
As a postscript, I might mention arriving as a shiny young Pilot Officer at the Canberra bomber squadron (45 Sqn) in Singapore. The training officer (Flt Lt Johnny Walker) felt that my initial night check had really gone too well for my own good. So he declared an emergency, almost unthinkable in Canberra operations, of a double engine failure downwind on the Tengah runway. Then it was less my comprehensive military training than my hundred or so hours in gliders that kept me from making a fool of myself.
Military flying training has the job of making students safe and competent in complicated airborne machines. Too little experience is provided for when the machines revert to simple. Gliding provides the knowledge for that situation.
Ignoring any question of the necessary courage, I honestly believe my deeply embedded gliding experience would have saved me from making a fool of myself in any of the Hudson, the Gimli or the AF447 situations.
YS was also a bit sharp about 1.3vStall not quoting his own experience. He should be careful what he wishes for …
I was at Cranwell 1958-61 - Piston Provosts and Meteors in the second and third years. A good chum of mine was chopped in the first few hours at the beginning of the second year. He was a London lad who had not even learned to ride a bike. He must have demonstrated the aptitude at Hornchurch (as it was then) but the system in effect failed him for his not developing the motor skills that pilotage calls for. It was obvious to the rest of us, with our air experience, our gliding, our flying scholarships etc that we had arrived on the course with initial momentum that he clearly lacked.
By the end of my training, the management was fairly clear that there was no Air Marshal’s baton in my knapsack and vaguely wondered if they could throw me out. For them the snag was that I had been gliding on the North Airfield at HM’s expense for over two years and had become, in my turn, Captain of Gliding. The officer in charge was able to tell them that on North Airfield I was doing all that good leadership and management that they could not detect in the College setting (Sqn Ldr Dougie Bridson AFC – if you are still around – I salute you).
Much more important to me was the flying and the captaincy. While my solo hours on the Meteor was only just enough to progress my learning, I really needed more and I got it in the trusty Olympia. Landing away, doing my own “Silver C” cross country, crewing for all the other young pilots when they landed away – that all added up to extra experience as a young aircraft captain.
One lovely evening, the woods at the edge of the North Airfield exhaled a great bubble of warm air into the hazy fading blue sky. I was in the right place, with a glider and barograph ready for launch. Well over an hour later, having continuously manoeuvred inside this burgeoning Cu Nim (using just a Turn & Slip, a DI, an ASI and a Variometer) I finally straightened up and flew West into the evening sun with a “Gold C” climb of 3000 metres on the barograph and a huge wodge of ice on the wings each side of the cockpit. Not long after that I flew my final Instrument Rating Test on the Meteor. That test might normally be more critical for a student than the Final Handling Test. It never occurred to me, that summer, that I could fail it.
As a postscript, I might mention arriving as a shiny young Pilot Officer at the Canberra bomber squadron (45 Sqn) in Singapore. The training officer (Flt Lt Johnny Walker) felt that my initial night check had really gone too well for my own good. So he declared an emergency, almost unthinkable in Canberra operations, of a double engine failure downwind on the Tengah runway. Then it was less my comprehensive military training than my hundred or so hours in gliders that kept me from making a fool of myself.
Military flying training has the job of making students safe and competent in complicated airborne machines. Too little experience is provided for when the machines revert to simple. Gliding provides the knowledge for that situation.
Ignoring any question of the necessary courage, I honestly believe my deeply embedded gliding experience would have saved me from making a fool of myself in any of the Hudson, the Gimli or the AF447 situations.
The greatest aviation feat of WWII was achieved - (IMHO) - in gliders:
The `Pegasus bridge spot landing competition` was carried out brilliantly on the night of the 5th of June 1944.
.....and the pilots were all from the Army.
The `Pegasus bridge spot landing competition` was carried out brilliantly on the night of the 5th of June 1944.
.....and the pilots were all from the Army.
All my gliding experience was PFLs and practice turn-backs in the Hawk. Great fun, but it didn't last long. Maybe the thermals were just rubbish at Valley, Brawdy and Chiv.
The `Pegasus bridge spot landing competition` was carried out brilliantly on the night of the 5th of June 1944.
.....and the pilots were all from the Army.
.....and the pilots were all from the Army.
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On my initial famil flight in a JP3 from Syerston my instructor (I*n Ham**ton) suddenly throttled right back to flight idle and went bananas about being in wave. I wondered what he was on about but I did notice the RCDI (VSI?) was showing a rate of climb. He was the CFI of the RAFGSA at Swinderby at the weekends.
ACW
ACW
ATC - Correct!
The pilot was A**y M****r, who is still an active glider pilot. IIRC, I believe overdue action was taken and he got a bo**ocking.
However, as any glider pilot knows, once you get into wave, it is so seductive that it is difficult to give it up!
The pilot was A**y M****r, who is still an active glider pilot. IIRC, I believe overdue action was taken and he got a bo**ocking.
However, as any glider pilot knows, once you get into wave, it is so seductive that it is difficult to give it up!
I recall Ja*k H**ris*n 
used to teach potential `multi` instructors at Little Riss in the Varsity. The trick, on a wave day, was to sit in the lee of the Welsh mountains, throttle both back to idle & get bloggs to patter the onset of the stall, increasing sink etc etc..
Priceless!
used to teach potential `multi` instructors at Little Riss in the Varsity. The trick, on a wave day, was to sit in the lee of the Welsh mountains, throttle both back to idle & get bloggs to patter the onset of the stall, increasing sink etc etc.. Priceless!