I Like ARSSE (The Army Rumour Site)
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I have worked closely with the RAF quite a bit, and there were some outstanding people I met.
This thread is an interesting one IMHO as there are clearly some posters here who have broken masses of service rules, and taken part in lots of illegal activities while in paid crown service. I know this as I have read their 'stories' on this site. Oddly some of these same posters are now being very critical of the prince (and yes I know it has been said earlier on this thread, and that these very same posters are choosing to ignore the hints).
I wonder what they would have to say if he had been caught placing a webber BBQ onboard an aircraft, or illegally bringing cigarettes or alcohol into the country (but of course not being ones of the people who 'abused' this illegal activity by bringing too many. He could I suppose have been caught using hundreds of thousands of pounds of tax payers money fraudulently by picking up fresh salmon in a SH cab!
I cannot say if the prince is immature as I have NEVER met him or spent long enough in his company to have a sound opinion.
I feel sorry for him to have been caught out when he was doing something he thought was private, and at this point it must be remembered that attempting to burn a piano, or to use a mess cannon in public would result in arrest (and hopefully to some here the loss of commission it seems). Maybe his youth or possibly niavety let him down here, or maybe his security team did (I'm sure someone is looking ast this right now).
It does have to also be re said that he is not in the RAF, and that his day job includes such things as killing people using a 5.56 weapon, on blowing them into little pieces using a 30mm cannon! I find it odd that ending someones life who you have never met or spoken to and have no dislike for is seen as OK, but being naked in private is a huge no no.
This thread is an interesting one IMHO as there are clearly some posters here who have broken masses of service rules, and taken part in lots of illegal activities while in paid crown service. I know this as I have read their 'stories' on this site. Oddly some of these same posters are now being very critical of the prince (and yes I know it has been said earlier on this thread, and that these very same posters are choosing to ignore the hints).
I wonder what they would have to say if he had been caught placing a webber BBQ onboard an aircraft, or illegally bringing cigarettes or alcohol into the country (but of course not being ones of the people who 'abused' this illegal activity by bringing too many. He could I suppose have been caught using hundreds of thousands of pounds of tax payers money fraudulently by picking up fresh salmon in a SH cab!
I cannot say if the prince is immature as I have NEVER met him or spent long enough in his company to have a sound opinion.
I feel sorry for him to have been caught out when he was doing something he thought was private, and at this point it must be remembered that attempting to burn a piano, or to use a mess cannon in public would result in arrest (and hopefully to some here the loss of commission it seems). Maybe his youth or possibly niavety let him down here, or maybe his security team did (I'm sure someone is looking ast this right now).
It does have to also be re said that he is not in the RAF, and that his day job includes such things as killing people using a 5.56 weapon, on blowing them into little pieces using a 30mm cannon! I find it odd that ending someones life who you have never met or spoken to and have no dislike for is seen as OK, but being naked in private is a huge no no.
barnstormer1968, there is nothing illegal about bringing goods, lawfully bought in the USA, into the country as personal effects, on a military aeroplane, provided that they are declared to HMRC. If within the allowance, there is nothing to pay; if outside the allowance, most HMRC would generally be quite lenient. Whereas anyone bringing cigarettes or alcohol into the country in excess of their allowances would, when caught, certainly be facing disciplinary action. As happened quite recently.
PN, if there's any good to come of the prince's unacceptable behaviour, it's that a charity is likely to benefit financially.
Anyway, the ball is now firmly in the court of General Sir Peter Wall.
PN, if there's any good to come of the prince's unacceptable behaviour, it's that a charity is likely to benefit financially.
Anyway, the ball is now firmly in the court of General Sir Peter Wall.
Last edited by BEagle; 26th Aug 2012 at 10:22.
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Beagle
I'd be interested to know what action you would proscribe in the case of a young married officer who has repeatedly disobeyed orders in the field, is famous for misbehaviour off the field and has had a very public affair with a married woman that scandalises the press and produced a child. Apparently he is quite good at his job though. Should he be asked to resign his commission?
I'd be interested to know what action you would proscribe in the case of a young married officer who has repeatedly disobeyed orders in the field, is famous for misbehaviour off the field and has had a very public affair with a married woman that scandalises the press and produced a child. Apparently he is quite good at his job though. Should he be asked to resign his commission?
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I think the head of the Army has more pressing things to deal with other than worry about an Apache pilot having a good and perfectly legal time in the privacy of his own hotel room.
Dealing with the plummeting morale of his Officers and men, 63% of surveyed Officers stated that morale was low.
Dealing with the complex mess of preparing our withdrawl/defeat in Afghanistan.
If somebody could find exactly what Harry has done wrong in Queens regs I would be interested to see it.
No doubt somebody will spout bringing the Army into disrepute!!
Dealing with the plummeting morale of his Officers and men, 63% of surveyed Officers stated that morale was low.
Dealing with the complex mess of preparing our withdrawl/defeat in Afghanistan.
If somebody could find exactly what Harry has done wrong in Queens regs I would be interested to see it.
No doubt somebody will spout bringing the Army into disrepute!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BEagle, point well made, maybe his private income should also be taken in to account?
I'd be interested to know what action you would proscribe in the case of a young married officer who has repeatedly disobeyed orders in the field, is famous for misbehaviour off the field and has had a very public affair with a married woman that scandalises the press and produced a child. Apparently he is quite good at his job though. Should he be asked to resign his commission?
Ironic that it was one of Prince Harry's ancestors who suggested to said officer that his behaviour should be moderated.....
And I very much doubt whether this particular officer was given to drunken, naked carousing with the other members of his ships' companies.
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"And I very much doubt whether this particular officer was given to drunken, naked carousing with the other members of his ships' companies."
He did ask one of them to kiss him on his deathbed, so who knows.
Anyway, answer the question.
Should he lose his commission, or is that case somehow, different?
He did ask one of them to kiss him on his deathbed, so who knows.
Anyway, answer the question.
Should he lose his commission, or is that case somehow, different?
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I feel compelled to post a reply to a lot of the comments written on this thread so far. Firstly I suspect none of you work with the Prince or have even met him. I have had the pleasure of working with him for the last couple of years and let me tell you he is a thoroughly decent, down to earth and pretty much all round good bloke.
What a lot of people don't seem to realise is that his life never stops. When we all knock off for the weekend or come back from exercise he is whisked off to some official engagement. So when he actually does get some time off it is (in my lowly opinion) well deserved. Imagine being on an extremely intense course (AH CTR) and not getting any down time? I can't and I doff my hat to him for maintaining is humour and humility throughout.
Finally, for all you doubters out there he is a very competent CPG and his experience on the ground as a JTAC has served him well. Anyone who thinks that he got through on anything else than merit is essentially insulting the professionalism of all the QHIs and instructors that have taught and mentored him throughout the last 3 years.
If he wants to let off steam by behaving like any other young army officer then let him - and consider the motives of the person who sold the pictures.
What a lot of people don't seem to realise is that his life never stops. When we all knock off for the weekend or come back from exercise he is whisked off to some official engagement. So when he actually does get some time off it is (in my lowly opinion) well deserved. Imagine being on an extremely intense course (AH CTR) and not getting any down time? I can't and I doff my hat to him for maintaining is humour and humility throughout.
Finally, for all you doubters out there he is a very competent CPG and his experience on the ground as a JTAC has served him well. Anyone who thinks that he got through on anything else than merit is essentially insulting the professionalism of all the QHIs and instructors that have taught and mentored him throughout the last 3 years.
If he wants to let off steam by behaving like any other young army officer then let him - and consider the motives of the person who sold the pictures.
Browse through ARRSe on this and you will see that to a man the troops are behind him.
What does it matter what craphat journos, lardy-butt historians and blunty intellectuals think?
What does it matter what craphat journos, lardy-butt historians and blunty intellectuals think?
Last edited by Trim Stab; 26th Aug 2012 at 19:29.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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If somebody could find exactly what Harry has done wrong in Queens regs
I'm of a similar age to BEagle, (I'm 1941), and am definitely on Harry's side, it was supposed to be in private and none of our bloody business.
(Harry's father, a commissioned officer, committed several times what was once a Courts Martial offence that would have cost him his commission, adultery!).
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Perhaps there is a hint of commonality in the prim disapproval of some, expressed about the behaviour of this junior officer, and also of the robust treatment meted out on OCU's. Perhaps military life is not suited to the more sensitive souls!
Sooo according to Beagle the behavior at the 1Gp Dining in night (Thread here http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...addington.html) was okay but young Harry cant have get naked in his own hotel room?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
flight, he wasn't there. I was. Nothing inappropriate took place in public, at least before I left. It was either pitch black or behind the sofa.
Getting back to my earlier post when I speculated what I would have to say if I was his Sqn Cd, I've mulled over this and spoke to several colleagues about it.
I'd probably commiserate with him on his public exposure, but also counsel him on the need for greater discretion and not giving others ammunition that could be used back at him. I'd probably go a bit po-faced and stress that being a good officer is not just about being an increadibly popular and wealthy, and being surrounded by fruity young women...
And then probably haul out my QR 1074 (remember those?) which has the memorable line :'WP you are rapidly becoming a burden on the RAF',* stressing that there is a time and a place and that most of us have been there and got through it, too
.
* it was the short, sharp, shock I needed to get my life back on the rails, drink less and focus more on my professional duties (ie grow up!).
I'd probably commiserate with him on his public exposure, but also counsel him on the need for greater discretion and not giving others ammunition that could be used back at him. I'd probably go a bit po-faced and stress that being a good officer is not just about being an increadibly popular and wealthy, and being surrounded by fruity young women...
And then probably haul out my QR 1074 (remember those?) which has the memorable line :'WP you are rapidly becoming a burden on the RAF',* stressing that there is a time and a place and that most of us have been there and got through it, too
.
* it was the short, sharp, shock I needed to get my life back on the rails, drink less and focus more on my professional duties (ie grow up!).
it was the short, sharp, shock I needed to get my life back on the rails, drink less and focus more on my professional duties (ie grow up!)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Tourist, in that context, where others could observe the activity simply by being in a place rather than their having to actively seek out the activity.
In a park accessible by members of the public or in the middle of a marquee where many people happened to be. Both places may be considered public.
Sorry if my explanation is a bit clumsy but I hope my meaning is resaonably clear.
In a park accessible by members of the public or in the middle of a marquee where many people happened to be. Both places may be considered public.
Sorry if my explanation is a bit clumsy but I hope my meaning is resaonably clear.
Trimstab
Couldn't agree with you more. Would just add that, longer term, the monarchy/Family/"Firm" cannot afford publicity which materially erodes the support of their people. Personally, this story does not erode my support one jot.
Couldn't agree with you more. Would just add that, longer term, the monarchy/Family/"Firm" cannot afford publicity which materially erodes the support of their people. Personally, this story does not erode my support one jot.