Turkish F4 "Vanishes"
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Turkish F4 "Vanishes"
BBC News - Turkish military F-4 plane 'vanishes' near Syria border
According to the BBC A Turkish F4 has been shot down by Syrian Air Defences. If true I cannot see Turkey not responding militarily.
According to the BBC A Turkish F4 has been shot down by Syrian Air Defences. If true I cannot see Turkey not responding militarily.
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Originally Posted by Retired Rigger
According to the BBC A Turkish F4 has been shot down by Syrian Air Defences. If true I cannot see Turkey not responding militarily.
Just wondering, for the purposes of the interpretation of the NATO Charter, is all Turkish territory considered "in Europe"?
JAS
Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .
Article 6 (1)
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .
Article 6 (1)
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
- on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France (2), on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
- on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.
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DT saying the men were picked up in international waters. Syria 'shoots down Turkish fighter jet' - Telegraph
This will be interesting.
This will be interesting.
Yup, home-grown SOM, ALCM, 160nm range*, 5m accuracy in testing. Should be in service now.
Never assume dictatorships are going to do things which would be sensible to us. They are on completely different agendas.
Who'd be the AD Commander? Probably in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario.
*Which means they can reach Damascus from Turkish territory (just, though the missile may be capable of longer range)
Never assume dictatorships are going to do things which would be sensible to us. They are on completely different agendas.
Who'd be the AD Commander? Probably in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario.
*Which means they can reach Damascus from Turkish territory (just, though the missile may be capable of longer range)
Last edited by Fox3WheresMyBanana; 22nd Jun 2012 at 16:09.
In response to this outrage, the Turks will doubtless bomb a small island in the Aegean claimed by Greece.
Why?
It's the only war plan they have on file that they can put into action in short order!
Second thought: I wonder if Mr Assad has about puckered up his trousers into his upper colon about now, pondering on how the Turks might responde if they are in a bad mood.
Why?
It's the only war plan they have on file that they can put into action in short order!
Second thought: I wonder if Mr Assad has about puckered up his trousers into his upper colon about now, pondering on how the Turks might responde if they are in a bad mood.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 22nd Jun 2012 at 18:01.
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Syrians? Or Russians in Syria? How close are the alliances between Syria and Russia? If Turkey attacks Syria, will the Russians retaliate? Theres a lot of unfinshed Russian / Turk animosity, and the Russians believe Turkey is behind a lot of the Central Asian Muslim resurgence in an effort to create a "Greater Turkey". They've been looking for a way to knock Turkey back for years, what better way to start a flash war than a false-flag shootdown?
Sorry, got the paranoia head on today
Wheres SAMXXV - he'd be sure to agree
Sorry, got the paranoia head on today
Wheres SAMXXV - he'd be sure to agree
I wonder if the defection of that Mig 21 earlier this week was significant in this shootdown? Perhaps the Syrians mistakenly thought another of their fighters was making a bolt for it.
I doubt much will come of this, after all both of the F4 crew reportedly survived. There's been several border skirmishes over the past few months - despite their bluster the Turks don't really have the stomach to square up to Syria. Its not their fight.
I doubt much will come of this, after all both of the F4 crew reportedly survived. There's been several border skirmishes over the past few months - despite their bluster the Turks don't really have the stomach to square up to Syria. Its not their fight.
Russian interests in Syria? Well one of the biggest is the Naval Base at Tartus...
...this is the Russian Navy "pull in" for the Black Sea Fleet in the Med.
Things are about to get very interesting, methinks!
Especially for Cyprus.
The B Word
...this is the Russian Navy "pull in" for the Black Sea Fleet in the Med.
Things are about to get very interesting, methinks!
Especially for Cyprus.The B Word
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Syria now admitting they shot the F4 down after detecting it flying at high speed and low level.
BBC News - Syrian military says it downed Turkish fighter jet
BBC News - Syrian military says it downed Turkish fighter jet
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Why didnt the Turks respond decisively in 2010, when Israel Military killed 9 Turks in International waters on a civilian ship?
Bloody Israeli raid on flotilla sparks crisis - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Israel-Palestinians - msnbc.com
Bloody Israeli raid on flotilla sparks crisis - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Israel-Palestinians - msnbc.com