Olympic call up's
As someone said on another site, even Caesar wouldn't have been daft enough to sack 20,000 of his best troops then invite them to Rome for the Games..
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Winco,
Follow me through old chap. I sadly didn't slip the surly bonds today but a long drive gave a bit of time for reflection. The more I reflected, the angrier I got. So if you'll forgive me we don't 100% agree but we're almost there.
Here's my thinking:
We agree we are the back stop, that in MACA we're the last resort. I notice that the government has not called up the junior doctors, or the fire brigade, or the civil service. It has called on the military. The loyal gun dog that takes kick after kick but still turns up to the peg when the chips are down.
And that got me thinking. I actually have nothing against chaps on olympic duty being given tickets etc, or something so their family could have a nice day out or similar.
But what of the real heroes. 'Our brothers down range' as the US would have it? What about their families? What about my family? Should they not get a spare olympic ticket, not because I got called up, but rather because I was doing something important so couldn't be.
And here's the real issue here. This has demonstrated to me in glorious technicolour, that we are special. That is to say we operate to different rules, mindsets, expectations and responsibilities to everyone else. And then I became really angry. Because it is exactly for reasons such as these that our farking pensions aren't the same as those of other public sector workers. This is why our pay shouldn't have been frozen; because we're different. Because when it matters they turn to us, and when they turn to us, we turn up with the goods.
Fly safe everyone. Orca.
Follow me through old chap. I sadly didn't slip the surly bonds today but a long drive gave a bit of time for reflection. The more I reflected, the angrier I got. So if you'll forgive me we don't 100% agree but we're almost there.
Here's my thinking:
We agree we are the back stop, that in MACA we're the last resort. I notice that the government has not called up the junior doctors, or the fire brigade, or the civil service. It has called on the military. The loyal gun dog that takes kick after kick but still turns up to the peg when the chips are down.
And that got me thinking. I actually have nothing against chaps on olympic duty being given tickets etc, or something so their family could have a nice day out or similar.
But what of the real heroes. 'Our brothers down range' as the US would have it? What about their families? What about my family? Should they not get a spare olympic ticket, not because I got called up, but rather because I was doing something important so couldn't be.
And here's the real issue here. This has demonstrated to me in glorious technicolour, that we are special. That is to say we operate to different rules, mindsets, expectations and responsibilities to everyone else. And then I became really angry. Because it is exactly for reasons such as these that our farking pensions aren't the same as those of other public sector workers. This is why our pay shouldn't have been frozen; because we're different. Because when it matters they turn to us, and when they turn to us, we turn up with the goods.
Fly safe everyone. Orca.
Last edited by orca; 15th Jul 2012 at 05:48.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What will they do ?
So a guy gets back from the sandy place after six months wth a P45 looming and all he has to look forward to taking is taking his wife and kids on holiday for two weeks.
Then he is told canx the holiday you are off to East London to protect the great unwashed !
I expect a few of them will just pack up the wife and kids and head for the sun, after all what sanction do the authority's have ? They can't sack him because they already have and if they take court action they will look totally stupid and ungreatfull in the press.
Then he is told canx the holiday you are off to East London to protect the great unwashed !
I expect a few of them will just pack up the wife and kids and head for the sun, after all what sanction do the authority's have ? They can't sack him because they already have and if they take court action they will look totally stupid and ungreatfull in the press.
Most have been told not to take the own cars as they will be no space for parking at Halton !
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,966
Received 2,862 Likes
on
1,228 Posts
I do remember once the RAF put a no alcohol curfew on us many moons ago during something similar, it lasted ohhhh about 45 minutes as most just ignored it and went out on the piss... There was about 50 of us and there wasn't exactly a lot they could do about it, as a Squadron with out engineers is simply a storage facility.
Last edited by NutLoose; 15th Jul 2012 at 12:05.
Originally Posted by NutLoose
I do remember once the RAF put a no alcohol curfew on us many moons ago during something similar, it lasted ohhhh about 45 minutes as most just ignored it and went out on the piss... There was about 50 of us and there wasn't exactly a lot they could do about it, as a Squadron with out engineers is simply a storage facility.
(On second thoughts, you've probably said enough already.)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Back in Geordie Land
Posts: 492
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
orca,
I'm with you 100% - Don't have a problem with anything you say!
But.................................. and it's a pretty big BUT.....................
Why can we pay tube drivers extra money to do 'their' job?
Why can we pay bus drivers extra to do 'their' job?
Why can we even pay the bloody police extra to do 'their' job?
IF we can do all of that for people to do do their normal, everyday job, then I fail to see why we can't do the same for the thousands of servicemen and women who aren't doing their normal 'everyday' job. That's the only thing we seem to differ on I think??
As for the VSOs of all three services, I have yet to hear any of them utter a single word against the decision. They are the ones who will get the Gongs for their troops doing a bloody fine job. They are the ones who will get the post-service golden job opportunities in the likes of BAe etc, but I have little doubt that there won't be a single one visible during the games - except in the poncy enclosures, sipping Champers and caviar!!
Got to go, I can feel the old blood pressure starting to rise again and I promised myself I wouldn't get wound up about it all again. Seem to have failed on that score, so, off for a lie down myself!!
Best wishes to every serviceman and woman involved in the Nations sports day fortnight. I do hope you all get something out of it.
I'm with you 100% - Don't have a problem with anything you say!
But.................................. and it's a pretty big BUT.....................
Why can we pay tube drivers extra money to do 'their' job?
Why can we pay bus drivers extra to do 'their' job?
Why can we even pay the bloody police extra to do 'their' job?
IF we can do all of that for people to do do their normal, everyday job, then I fail to see why we can't do the same for the thousands of servicemen and women who aren't doing their normal 'everyday' job. That's the only thing we seem to differ on I think??
As for the VSOs of all three services, I have yet to hear any of them utter a single word against the decision. They are the ones who will get the Gongs for their troops doing a bloody fine job. They are the ones who will get the post-service golden job opportunities in the likes of BAe etc, but I have little doubt that there won't be a single one visible during the games - except in the poncy enclosures, sipping Champers and caviar!!
Got to go, I can feel the old blood pressure starting to rise again and I promised myself I wouldn't get wound up about it all again. Seem to have failed on that score, so, off for a lie down myself!!
Best wishes to every serviceman and woman involved in the Nations sports day fortnight. I do hope you all get something out of it.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Midlands
Age: 55
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am now a Police Officer.
I have just had my days off and leave cancelled because of the G4S debacle. Because of the recent change to my working conditions (introduced by Cameron's lacky Tom Winsor), I do not get extra pay nor overtime.
We are now having to guard an Olympic venue because 5 out of a contracted 180 G4S staff turned up. 13000 Other Police Officers are in the same boat. They to were given a few days notice.
Having been cut by 16000 Officers, we too are 'overstretched'. Without wishing to repeat myself, stop reading the bloody Daily Mail to get your facts about what Police are supposedly 'earning'.
I have just had my days off and leave cancelled because of the G4S debacle. Because of the recent change to my working conditions (introduced by Cameron's lacky Tom Winsor), I do not get extra pay nor overtime.
We are now having to guard an Olympic venue because 5 out of a contracted 180 G4S staff turned up. 13000 Other Police Officers are in the same boat. They to were given a few days notice.
Having been cut by 16000 Officers, we too are 'overstretched'. Without wishing to repeat myself, stop reading the bloody Daily Mail to get your facts about what Police are supposedly 'earning'.
They could split the £50M fine on G4S and split it amongst the 17,000 troops involved.
This would be £3,000k each. Enough compensation for a couple of weeks forced work I'd say.
Compare this to the £284M the contract to G4S is worth. As they were to provide 14,000 security staff, this works out at £20,000 for each security worker, which doesn't really stack up with the £6.5/hour that has also been quoted as what the workers are actually earning.
3 weeks full time (40hrs) at £6.5/hour is £800. Wonder where the other £19,200 per worker is being spent? Perhaps if G4S had been more generous in their pay they would have been able to recruit.
Something very nasty here about the cost effectiveness of the private sector in these contracts. Good job that Bernard Gray isn't talking about basing the future of DE&S procurement on some sort of Olympic Delivery Authority model.........
Link - to be fair he raises some good points in his initial answer to Q90:
House of Commons - Uncorrected Evidence - HC9-ii
This would be £3,000k each. Enough compensation for a couple of weeks forced work I'd say.
Compare this to the £284M the contract to G4S is worth. As they were to provide 14,000 security staff, this works out at £20,000 for each security worker, which doesn't really stack up with the £6.5/hour that has also been quoted as what the workers are actually earning.
3 weeks full time (40hrs) at £6.5/hour is £800. Wonder where the other £19,200 per worker is being spent? Perhaps if G4S had been more generous in their pay they would have been able to recruit.
Something very nasty here about the cost effectiveness of the private sector in these contracts. Good job that Bernard Gray isn't talking about basing the future of DE&S procurement on some sort of Olympic Delivery Authority model.........
Link - to be fair he raises some good points in his initial answer to Q90:
House of Commons - Uncorrected Evidence - HC9-ii
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire
Age: 48
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find it shocking how the government can firstly send troops to fight a war based on lies in Iraq, then to Afghanistan where all the deaths and injuries are for nothing. Then they have the brass neck to send the over worked and under resourced troops to man the London games.
JFZ
You need to consider the cost to Defence already in your calculations:
1. The free meals 3 times a day under Field Conditions.
2. The cost of the infrastructure - toilets, bedding, ablutions, etc...
3. The welfare packages - access to gym eqpt, communal TVs and recreational areas.
4. The payment of unexpected seperation allowances.
5. The laying on of at least a fleet of 30+ 55-seat coaches each day.
6. The trg cost for the week long VSF Trg Centre courses.
I suspect your £50M might be a lot smaller after all of that...
LJ
PS. On the subject of wages. The rumour is that the Company originally agreed to pay circa £140 per day and then slashed it to £80 per day - a lot of people that had signed up for it stuck 2 fingers up at the reduced wages considering the cost of travel/living in London for a 10-12 hour working day. Hey Presto! We now need the extra 3,500 troops to bail out the company.
You need to consider the cost to Defence already in your calculations:
1. The free meals 3 times a day under Field Conditions.
2. The cost of the infrastructure - toilets, bedding, ablutions, etc...
3. The welfare packages - access to gym eqpt, communal TVs and recreational areas.
4. The payment of unexpected seperation allowances.
5. The laying on of at least a fleet of 30+ 55-seat coaches each day.
6. The trg cost for the week long VSF Trg Centre courses.
I suspect your £50M might be a lot smaller after all of that...
LJ
PS. On the subject of wages. The rumour is that the Company originally agreed to pay circa £140 per day and then slashed it to £80 per day - a lot of people that had signed up for it stuck 2 fingers up at the reduced wages considering the cost of travel/living in London for a 10-12 hour working day. Hey Presto! We now need the extra 3,500 troops to bail out the company.
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 15th Jul 2012 at 13:00.
For the VSF guys and girls working at RAF Halton for the Olympics, there is plenty of space for cars. For those using the place to stage for their RSOI en-route to other locations, there is no room. There is also no capacity for large numbers of one-way hire cars.
If you don't believe me, then get a hold of the RAF Joining Instruction via CMLO for the VSF Trg School and there is a specific section on transport - it clearly states that individuals will be able to park on station, but you may be parked 1km from your Barrack Block.
LJ
If you don't believe me, then get a hold of the RAF Joining Instruction via CMLO for the VSF Trg School and there is a specific section on transport - it clearly states that individuals will be able to park on station, but you may be parked 1km from your Barrack Block.
LJ
On this am's BBC World News, G4S apparently gave permission for a reporter to speak to one of the recently recruited security 'team leaders'. He was asked what his duties were - after much hesitation, he spoke, I think, about searches and X-rays. Aside from being unintelligible itwas obvious he really didn't have a clue. Presumably G4S thought him a shining example ...
There are circa 650 Members of Parliament, many of whom will have second homes in London, funded by the taxpayer. As the games are being held during the Parliamentary summer recess, these homes should be requisitioned for the military to be used as accommodation for those dragooned into provided security cover.
Each one of these properties could provide decent temporary barracks for six people, in warm, dry and civilised conditions, with little additional cost.
They can't argue against that..........can they?
Each one of these properties could provide decent temporary barracks for six people, in warm, dry and civilised conditions, with little additional cost.
They can't argue against that..........can they?
Britain flooded with 'brand police' to protect sponsors - Home News - UK - The Independent
So the armed forces get their leave canceled, freeing the Olympics to send people out to protect McDonalds' and Coca-Cola's contracts. After this and Penn State, nobody can doubt that organized sport is a foul and stupid racket that makes the defense industry look like St Francis of
Assisi.
So the armed forces get their leave canceled, freeing the Olympics to send people out to protect McDonalds' and Coca-Cola's contracts. After this and Penn State, nobody can doubt that organized sport is a foul and stupid racket that makes the defense industry look like St Francis of
Assisi.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an ex Chief Immigration Officer of 20 years standing I applied for a number of roles with G4S. I was interviewed on 9 January by an Indian national here in the UK on a visa and was asked to prove my entitlement to work in the UK, despite me showing him my British passport and my P60 from UK Border Agency. As a result of the shambolic process I wrote to the Olympics Minister, Hugh Robertson who happens to be my constituency MP. I outlined a number of concerns and whilst not expecting a response from him I had hoped that someone in the govt. would at least take on board some of my points.
In April I had an email from G4S asking me why I had not attended two training courses in March. I telephoned and explained that I had not been sent any joining instructions. The person on other end of the phone was adamant that I had been advised but could not find the original email. They then refused to tell my what job was being offered, what duties would entail, length of time of the contract nor what the pay would be. At that point I decided I had had enough and told them to remove me from the selection process.
I feel sorry for those who have just come back from tours abroad and are now being forced to spend the next six weeks rifling through peoples belongings and patting them down. I don't expect there will be anyone of the rank of Major or above being forced to do this.
Finally I heard that MOD police are having to fill in the gaps for the UK Border Agency following several days of training. That is because Theresa May agreed to a cut of 900 immigration staff and now she is reaping what she sowed.
In April I had an email from G4S asking me why I had not attended two training courses in March. I telephoned and explained that I had not been sent any joining instructions. The person on other end of the phone was adamant that I had been advised but could not find the original email. They then refused to tell my what job was being offered, what duties would entail, length of time of the contract nor what the pay would be. At that point I decided I had had enough and told them to remove me from the selection process.
I feel sorry for those who have just come back from tours abroad and are now being forced to spend the next six weeks rifling through peoples belongings and patting them down. I don't expect there will be anyone of the rank of Major or above being forced to do this.
Finally I heard that MOD police are having to fill in the gaps for the UK Border Agency following several days of training. That is because Theresa May agreed to a cut of 900 immigration staff and now she is reaping what she sowed.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: East Midlands
Age: 84
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brilliant Times Cartoon today
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alba
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From my own experience of this shambles, last week I was on one of the training courses run by G4S. Of the 220 expected, 30 turned up. On given instruction to write an alphanumeric code on a form, one of the letters was given as E Echo, which one of the candidates promptly wrote as A. There seemed to be quite a few people with foreign passports and Visa's who struggled a lot with English. As far as security goes, most of them would be as useful as a chocolate tea pot.
As for G4S, I still haven't received role specific training, security passes, uniform, deployment instructions, or even told what role I'll be playing.
As for G4S, I still haven't received role specific training, security passes, uniform, deployment instructions, or even told what role I'll be playing.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
reynoldsno1
I saw that idiot on our news, as you said, didn't have a clue.
The blind leading the blind !
Looking from the outside, it seems that ONE particular minister is involved in all the cock ups - G4S, Immigration etc.
I saw that idiot on our news, as you said, didn't have a clue.
The blind leading the blind !
Looking from the outside, it seems that ONE particular minister is involved in all the cock ups - G4S, Immigration etc.