SARH
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Personally I don't think the NVG route recces issue is going to help the outcome of the SAR competition...can't think why! Perhaps a new thread for that might be helpful.
Ok Biggus.... Here we go. Frankly it's difficult to justify Portland... From an objective coverage and response perspective, anyway. Lee and Portland together do half the call outs of the busy places such as Prestwick, Chiv, Lossie, valley etc. In fact the distance between them is much shorter than most of the others, so from that perceptive, it's politics and emotion that keeps Portland going, not balanced demand.
Boulmer closing I have much more difficulty with. Prestwick at 140kts can do a lot as can Lec flying North. But my ruler suggests the coastal areas of Geordie land etc will not be well served. Furthermore, that area is still a busyish military flying area, which will not be well served either. As for the Lake District, those there and their associated MRTs will have to rely, mostly, on Prestwick...usually the busiest SAR Flt in the country and well preoccupied with the hard and high stuff around the Ben or flitting around the islands doing their med transfer stuff. No, closing Boulmer does not make sense to me.
Not convinced about only having cabs with smaller capacity all the way the eastern and southern coast from Lec right around to Culdrose.... The busiest sea lane in the world would seem to suggest the need for something bigger nearby.
So there ya go!
Ok Biggus.... Here we go. Frankly it's difficult to justify Portland... From an objective coverage and response perspective, anyway. Lee and Portland together do half the call outs of the busy places such as Prestwick, Chiv, Lossie, valley etc. In fact the distance between them is much shorter than most of the others, so from that perceptive, it's politics and emotion that keeps Portland going, not balanced demand.
Boulmer closing I have much more difficulty with. Prestwick at 140kts can do a lot as can Lec flying North. But my ruler suggests the coastal areas of Geordie land etc will not be well served. Furthermore, that area is still a busyish military flying area, which will not be well served either. As for the Lake District, those there and their associated MRTs will have to rely, mostly, on Prestwick...usually the busiest SAR Flt in the country and well preoccupied with the hard and high stuff around the Ben or flitting around the islands doing their med transfer stuff. No, closing Boulmer does not make sense to me.
Not convinced about only having cabs with smaller capacity all the way the eastern and southern coast from Lec right around to Culdrose.... The busiest sea lane in the world would seem to suggest the need for something bigger nearby.
So there ya go!
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Wow, this post has gone down a rabbit hole!
Merlin as CSAR asset
Llamaman - I did a SEREO course in '08 and we were briefed up by the RAF Reg guys on that capability. Only trouble was it was UK based and they would need to be transported, with the aircraft, to wherever the CSAR was happening. Estimated time - 4 days! It's a shame as it was a real effort to develop a TRAP-style capability. (Sorely lacking off Libya this year - hence the US HH-60 aircraft).
NVG Routes
In the UK a local wires map is maintained by all Squadrons to allow NVG flying within a defined area with no day recce (at VL anyway). This requires all aircrew to keep it up to date and report new obstacles (i.e. tell your oppo!).
On Ex/Ops for the junglies one of the first things to go up is the master wires map and we all start filling it in from there. I think then any Op that takes place without a day recce can have some of the risk mitigated. From what I've seen with computer mission planners this skill seems to die a death and printed maps might have a very neat route but little local knowledge applied. Although I wouldn't say no to a moving map display in the aircraft...
JWP 3-66
Someone asked if this was now a JDP; no it's not as it deals with the tactical warfare aspects of conducting JPR. A JDP generally deals with the higher level strategic thoughts for commanders. Basically it means as a user (i.e. aircrew) you can pick it up and apply the contents, a JDP is for the force commanders. The DCDC website is quite good for researching this stuff.
Back to this thread
As an aside, I put the reference to JWP 3-66 in becasue it highlights that UK SAR was procured for recovery of downed military crews, with the aid to civil powers (rescuing civilians) as a secondary role. I agree that that now it is being contracted out, SARH will need its primary mission redifined. I'm assuming that SAR of downed military crews will take a back seat if the Rescue Coordination Centre deems it lower priority. A shame if MOD is still paying for it...
Merlin as CSAR asset
Llamaman - I did a SEREO course in '08 and we were briefed up by the RAF Reg guys on that capability. Only trouble was it was UK based and they would need to be transported, with the aircraft, to wherever the CSAR was happening. Estimated time - 4 days! It's a shame as it was a real effort to develop a TRAP-style capability. (Sorely lacking off Libya this year - hence the US HH-60 aircraft).
NVG Routes
In the UK a local wires map is maintained by all Squadrons to allow NVG flying within a defined area with no day recce (at VL anyway). This requires all aircrew to keep it up to date and report new obstacles (i.e. tell your oppo!).
On Ex/Ops for the junglies one of the first things to go up is the master wires map and we all start filling it in from there. I think then any Op that takes place without a day recce can have some of the risk mitigated. From what I've seen with computer mission planners this skill seems to die a death and printed maps might have a very neat route but little local knowledge applied. Although I wouldn't say no to a moving map display in the aircraft...
JWP 3-66
Someone asked if this was now a JDP; no it's not as it deals with the tactical warfare aspects of conducting JPR. A JDP generally deals with the higher level strategic thoughts for commanders. Basically it means as a user (i.e. aircrew) you can pick it up and apply the contents, a JDP is for the force commanders. The DCDC website is quite good for researching this stuff.
Back to this thread
As an aside, I put the reference to JWP 3-66 in becasue it highlights that UK SAR was procured for recovery of downed military crews, with the aid to civil powers (rescuing civilians) as a secondary role. I agree that that now it is being contracted out, SARH will need its primary mission redifined. I'm assuming that SAR of downed military crews will take a back seat if the Rescue Coordination Centre deems it lower priority. A shame if MOD is still paying for it...
Tallsar,
Reference.... "Lee and Portland together do half the call outs of the busy places such as Prestwick, Chiv, Lossie, valley etc. ".
Individually both Lee and Portland do more callouts than Wattisham, Leconfield and Boulmer. One has done more than Lossie, and the combined total for Lee and Portland is considerably more than the busiest single flight.
Thus a single flight on the south coast could be expected to be by far and away the busiest in the UK.
The gap in coverage given the planned withdraw of Boulmer would be considerable, unless some of the other assets are planned to move slightly to compensate.
Reference.... "Lee and Portland together do half the call outs of the busy places such as Prestwick, Chiv, Lossie, valley etc. ".
Individually both Lee and Portland do more callouts than Wattisham, Leconfield and Boulmer. One has done more than Lossie, and the combined total for Lee and Portland is considerably more than the busiest single flight.
Thus a single flight on the south coast could be expected to be by far and away the busiest in the UK.
The gap in coverage given the planned withdraw of Boulmer would be considerable, unless some of the other assets are planned to move slightly to compensate.
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Lets do the SAR Flt shuffle......
First you move Lossie to Aberdeen
Leconfield to Newcastle
Watt a shame to Norwich
Lee & Culdrose stay
Chivenor to Cardiff
Valley stays (or to Caernarfon as someone already suggested as closer to all the mountain jobs)
Prestwick to Glasgow
Stornaway & Sumburgh stay
There that wasn't too hard was it
First you move Lossie to Aberdeen
Leconfield to Newcastle
Watt a shame to Norwich
Lee & Culdrose stay
Chivenor to Cardiff
Valley stays (or to Caernarfon as someone already suggested as closer to all the mountain jobs)
Prestwick to Glasgow
Stornaway & Sumburgh stay
There that wasn't too hard was it
Join Date: Oct 2004
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As an aside, I put the reference to JWP 3-66 in becasue it highlights that UK SAR was procured for recovery of downed military crews,
...are you suggesting that if an RAF aircraft crashes in SW Cornwall that the Culdrose asset won't be used in the rescue?
Please read post 16 of this thread.
Please read post 16 of this thread.
