R-Day!!!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Originally Posted by Airborne Aircrew

SFFP:
My point? In the military, you can't trust your "leaders" not to screw you over.

I would never argue with that sentiment however that was your Airforce from all those years ago. Not saying folk no longer get screwed but if you are happy to stay in one place they will only move you as a last resort and that is not a new thing

[Airborne Aircrew]

SFFP:

Fair enough... It certainly wasn't the policy back then.

Even so, bearing in mind that politicians hold Damocles Sword at all times, trusting them not to drop it is a little naive... I don't think that's a hard concept to grasp.

[ArmourerGR1]

It really depends on what you call new.
I left in 2006 after 22 years and I did move every 3 years and that includes 12 years overseas.

In recent years (last 20 years) the transport fleet and indeed the rotary fleet have tended to be situated in one or two certain locations only.
Where as the FJ fleet have been based over numerous locations and therefore PMA have more options as to where you may be needed.

I agree that as of late the FJ options are narrowing also but I stayed on type for my whole career and still moved continually.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Armourer,

You stayed on 1 type for 22 years, if that aircraft had been in 1 location for all that time would you have ever moved?

If you had been VC10 or Herc or Nimrod Aircrew for those 22 years, and happy to remain thus where do you think you would have been posted?

I lived your time and moved like a moving thing but sometimes your training mean your employment options are really limited

[ArmourerGR1]

If my type was only in one location, no of course I would not have moved and that is exactly my point transport and rotary have been in the same location for years and therefore you have had stability.
Those on FJ get moved around more as they are stationed in a larger number of bases.

As you can guess from the nic I was a groundcrew Armourer and my trade is one of the most diverse in the airforce.
I could have been 1st line, 2nd line, 3rd line Bomb disposal etc, etc.

My point is that the fast jet community as a whole (groundcrew, aircrew and support) have been more transient and therefore have had less of a chance to set down roots.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Armourer,

Take a look at post 103, as I said I have lived your life and do not dispute what you say

[A and C]

Seldom

You are far to close to all of this to see the big picture, the deal that people are being given to go is far better than you would ever get in civilian life. The deal takes account of the T & C's that the forces work under.

A fine example of this is a mate of mine, a SNCO aircrew who has just got out, his pension deal is good enough for him to retire at age 54. He is planning to never return to working.( I am hoping that I can talk him into working 3 days a week for us.)

There is no deal outside the military that would support someone from 54. So I think that you should take a long hard look at the world outside, it might give you a more balanced view of the deal offered to those being made redundant

[airborne_artist]

There is no deal outside the military that would support someone from 54.

Police officers can retire at thirty years service.

[2Planks]

One year's bankers bonus and I could retire at 30 and live to 150

[Biggus]

SFFP,

Your earlier comment, "...It has been badly handled and badly thought through. There are plenty of folk like me who are close enough to retirement to seriously consider early retirement if offered but it's not even an option....", simply shows that you don't appreciate/understand what is going on.

You are already effectively a part of the redundancy scheme, even though you aren't being paid to go early.

The aim of the SDSR draw down (right or wrong) is to reach a certain target number of people (30,000+ ish - whatever it is) in the RAF by Apr 2015. To reach this figure it is looking at both "natural wastage" and redundancies. Natural wastage represents those who will leave anyway, or not be signed on for further service, by 2015. They will simply not be replaced in terms of recruitment.

You are part of the natural wastage. Therefore you have already been taken into account in the number crunching exercise. If you got some form of early retirement, i.e. redundancy, it wouldn't save anyone else from having to go!!!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Originally Posted by Biggus

SFFP,

If you got some form of early retirement, i.e. redundancy, it wouldn't save anyone else from having to go!!!

I fully appreciate that but but what it might have saved is someone else having to go now, which was the point I was trying and failing dismally to make

[hunterboy]

A and C
What would you class as a decent pension at the age of 54?
Unless it's a serious 5 figure sum, I reckon most people would need to earn something on the side.

[A and C]

Hunter

That is hard to say and will depend on the individuals past investment in the property market.

I have to say I was very surprised that the Ex SNCO in question turned down my offer of part time employment stating that he did not require the income.

May be after a few months of retirement he will get bored because I would hate to see his talents go unused.

[FODPlod]

Originally Posted by hunterboy

What would you class as a decent pension at the age of 54?
Unless it's a serious 5 figure sum, I reckon most people would need to earn something on the side.

A note of caution. People sometimes forget that any personal income over £35,001 and less than £150k attracts 40% tax (2011/12 figures). So, if for example your pension is £25,001, you will only see 60% of anything earned above £10k (on which you will be paying standard rate (20%) anyway). Then you have NI employee contributions at 12% (2011/12 figures) to factor in.

What first appears to be a reasonably well-paying job may well end up with you working a 46-week year for not much more than the minimum wage.

[cazatou]

One should also remember that, if you retire and live overseas, HMG reserve the right to tax "Government Pensions" in the UK irrespective of where you live in the World. My Wife and I both pay UK Tax on our "Occupational" and "State" Pensions.

[middleground]

That is hard to say and will depend on the individuals past investment in the property market.

I have to say I was very surprised that the Ex SNCO in question turned down my offer of part time employment stating that he did not require the income.

May be after a few months of retirement he will get bored because I would hate to see his talents go unused

Well seeing as though he doesn't want the job maybe offer it to some one else who has just been made redundant

[Willard Whyte]

A note of caution. People sometimes forget that any personal income over £35,001 and less than £150k attracts 40% tax (2011/12 figures). So, if for example your pension is £25,001, you will only see 60% of anything earned above £10k (on which you will be paying standard rate (20%) anyway). Then you have NI employee contributions at 12% (2011/12 figures) to factor in.

What first appears to be a reasonably well-paying job may well end up with you working a 46-week year for not much more than the minimum wage.

One needs to add one's personal allowance, currently £7475 for under 65s, on to the £35,000 20% band. 40% is payable when one's income exceeds £42,475 per year. The upper tax threshold will reduce to £34,370 from next April, along with a rise in the personal allowance to £8105 - so the 40% tax bracket will remain £42,475.

So, your wage will have to be £17,475 or more to attract 40% tax given a pension of £25,001.

As I understand it NIC will only be payable on the wage not the pension, £1,229.64 on £17,475 for example.

[kevnurse]

While I won't be as harsh as some others here, (which may or may not surprise you), I somewhat agree with the basic premise. Of all the jobs out there the military is one of the ones most affected by the whims of others, (read: politicians). Thus, in a position that is so potentially fluid I don't understand why people have put down such roots. Yes, I bought a house while I was still in, but I did it in Ash Vale, fifty yards from a railway station that is 40 minutes from London on the morning train... Not somewhere about as far as you can get from "real life". To have made such a commitment to a geographic location was illogical and an impeding disaster waiting to happen and, to be honest, smacks of complacency.

Am I speaking from 50+ years of experience about people with on 30 years or so? Maybe. But I don't think the point is entirely unfounded.

This trash talk can't go without comment. Firstly, I doubt that the general public here in Moray share your view about "real life". Secondly, married service personnel tend to have families and they do not recklessly put down roots in the manner you suggest. At some time in their young lives their children have to go to school and develop a social life. The spouse might have to go to work and meet new people, etc. Putting down roots in an area that the RAF posts you to for at least 2 tours, probably longer as NCA, is inevitable. Its not a choice, you fool. When St Mawgan had a Nimrod force, you might have a had a point. In the early 90's when Kinloss was the sole base for LRMPA, the unit had 2 line squadrons, 3 flying sqns and the OCU. There was a total of at least 500 service personel specially trained to fly and maintain one type of aircraft from one base. You tell me how the RAF could possibly keep them all moving through every 3 years or so. At its max capacity in the mid 90's the OCU, in its big new building, trained approx X new crews every year. With the equivalent of 5X crews required to fly on the FL and instruct on the OCU and sim, its blindlingly obvious that 90% of the graduates from the OCU were nailed to Kinloss for at least 2 tours.

So, if you know that there is 90% probability you are going to be based at the same place for a minimum of 6 years and the housing market is buoyant and you are able to buy a house, you are not going to rent a married quarter or even a private rental, for that matter. "Illogical"...hogwash. "smacks of complacency"...well, its very easy to use those words from an anonymous keyboard. Come up here to the not "real world", introduce yourself and and say it to real people in a real awful situation that has been imposed on them. You, sir, should be ashamed of what you have written.

Kevin Nurse

[Party Animal]

WW,

Thank you for that clarification and as regards the NI contribution, is it the case then that those about to pick up a pension in 12 months time will only have a tax deduction (PAYE?) from their payslip if they have no other job/income?

Cheers,

PA

[Willard Whyte]

Well, I've seen my late father's teacher's pension payslips. The only deduction was income tax - no sign of NIC. The only caveat would be that they were dated at a time when he was over 80, so well above any mandatory retirement age.

I think it's safe to assume the same for military pensions, unless some of our more venerable members know otherwise..?