Wikileaks releases unredacted USA State Dept files....
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You're right... Having reread my post it was a bit uncalled for... and totally quackers! I had a bit of a heart scare this week (Pericarditus) and I could swear its messing with my head.... short tempered... flying off the handle... Is this normal?
P.S. Don't worry I am not a professional pilot but rather Ground Crew so it hasn't affected my job to the extent it could have... I am just a dude who fly's dem crazy ultralight type thingys so I am double quackers...
Sorry to all... I will now shut up and try to keep the chest pain away.
P.S. Don't worry I am not a professional pilot but rather Ground Crew so it hasn't affected my job to the extent it could have... I am just a dude who fly's dem crazy ultralight type thingys so I am double quackers...
Sorry to all... I will now shut up and try to keep the chest pain away.
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Roadster280
What about Bradley Manning? Not that I approve of what he did, but the fact is he was a soldier and did deliberately leak classified information.
Yes, but
1.) Julian Assange is a civilian, not a government official or military personnel.
2.) It's not clear if the information he released will cause significant damage (and we've heard all sorts of hype about the danger of the information he's currently released).
3.) It's possible the government decrypted his insurance file and released it to frame WikiLeaks for it as to justify shutting the site down. After all, if you can't find a crisis to exploit, just make your own.
ColinB
Correct.
I can't help thinking that this issue is one where those who have served and those who haven't make their respective backgrounds obvious.
I cannot conceive of a soldier/sailor/airman who would deliberately disclose classified information.
I cannot conceive of a soldier/sailor/airman who would deliberately disclose classified information.
It is drummed in from day 1 week 1, that such action is such a massive no-no that you may as well consider your life to be over. In the UK, it is certainly an offence against the Official Secrets Act, if not Treason. Both carry stiff penalties, especially for serving staff.
1.) Julian Assange is a civilian, not a government official or military personnel.
2.) It's not clear if the information he released will cause significant damage (and we've heard all sorts of hype about the danger of the information he's currently released).
3.) It's possible the government decrypted his insurance file and released it to frame WikiLeaks for it as to justify shutting the site down. After all, if you can't find a crisis to exploit, just make your own.
ColinB
The problem here is that the original source is an allegation in a press article and all that implies. It is not fact only a journalists view which may reflect his source and their agenda.
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"Lord Haw Haw" (William Joyce) was a civilian - didn't save him from the Gallows though.
Last edited by ColinB; 1st Sep 2011 at 13:02. Reason: Typo
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ColinB
The Dreyfus case was in Nov 1894 just 24 years since the War with the Prussians and only 20 years before a Re-united Germany invaded once again - and only 46 years before they invaded yet again in 1940.
People have complained in the past on these forums that French maps are appalling; they have however totally failed to consider the prime purpose of such maps - which is really quite simple.
The prime purpose of French Maps is to confuse the hell out of the German Army the next time they invade!!!
The Dreyfus case was in Nov 1894 just 24 years since the War with the Prussians and only 20 years before a Re-united Germany invaded once again - and only 46 years before they invaded yet again in 1940.
People have complained in the past on these forums that French maps are appalling; they have however totally failed to consider the prime purpose of such maps - which is really quite simple.
The prime purpose of French Maps is to confuse the hell out of the German Army the next time they invade!!!
Last edited by cazatou; 1st Sep 2011 at 15:26.
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Bradley Manning in my view has surpassed all previous similar crimes. Yes, he is a soldier, and therefore has deliberately chosen to do what he did. It's not a case of "he should have known better". He DID know he was committing treasonable crimes, and therefore did so in the full knowledge that not only has he endangered his country, but also potentially the whole world.
If just one of those 250,000 cables indicated US thinking on a particularly sensitive issue (eg "We're OK with the idea of South Korea invading the North" or "If Argentina reinvades the Falklands, we should not interfere on either side", then this alters the world, and affected governments may make choices they might otherwise have shied away from.
Additionally, Manning's disclosure of the plaintext of 250,000 signals that would have been transmitted over secure means has compromised those secure means.
He has caused inestimable damage, caused the DoD/State to incur huge cost, and is an utter disgrace to his uniform, and his country.
The weasel seems to find the spine to do the wrong thing, but not the right thing. For instance, he found the guts to punch a female officer in the face, but had difficulty with being kept in the brig in Quantico.
The man disgusts me. If he cannot be tried for treason, and face the death penalty, then he should be separately charged with disclosure of each of the 250,000 signals. Sentences to run consecutively. It doesn't really matter if it takes 6 months to read out the charges in court, or gets just a day in jail for each of his 250,000 crimes.
He hasn't just crossed the line, he's 15 miles over it, and stuck two fingers up all the way. Time for justice to be done.
Assange is another worthless turd. So Manning stole the info, and Assange decides to publish it for his own self-aggrandisement purposes. If Manning had simply given the info the Russians, he would have been a straightforward traitor, and probably dealt with accordingly. But no, Assange lets the whole world see it. So it's not just one country with the info, it's every Tom, Dick and Harry.
Secrets are secret for a reason. Someone I know tried it on with with my buddy's wife, and it wasn't exactly a hostile approach. My buddy disturbed them in the early stages before it got out of hand. I know he (the cad) did this, but he doesn't know I know. My buddy wants me to imagine it hadn't happened, for he is hoping time will heal his marriage, and it never needs to be mentioned again. I wish he'd never told me of the original deed. I can't look the cad in the eye and consider him my friend anymore. He's just a slimy turd, and always will be. Every time I see the woman, I think "whore".
Between the pair of them, Manning and Assange are despicable ****s.
I trust this clears up any confusion.
If just one of those 250,000 cables indicated US thinking on a particularly sensitive issue (eg "We're OK with the idea of South Korea invading the North" or "If Argentina reinvades the Falklands, we should not interfere on either side", then this alters the world, and affected governments may make choices they might otherwise have shied away from.
Additionally, Manning's disclosure of the plaintext of 250,000 signals that would have been transmitted over secure means has compromised those secure means.
He has caused inestimable damage, caused the DoD/State to incur huge cost, and is an utter disgrace to his uniform, and his country.
The weasel seems to find the spine to do the wrong thing, but not the right thing. For instance, he found the guts to punch a female officer in the face, but had difficulty with being kept in the brig in Quantico.
The man disgusts me. If he cannot be tried for treason, and face the death penalty, then he should be separately charged with disclosure of each of the 250,000 signals. Sentences to run consecutively. It doesn't really matter if it takes 6 months to read out the charges in court, or gets just a day in jail for each of his 250,000 crimes.
He hasn't just crossed the line, he's 15 miles over it, and stuck two fingers up all the way. Time for justice to be done.
Assange is another worthless turd. So Manning stole the info, and Assange decides to publish it for his own self-aggrandisement purposes. If Manning had simply given the info the Russians, he would have been a straightforward traitor, and probably dealt with accordingly. But no, Assange lets the whole world see it. So it's not just one country with the info, it's every Tom, Dick and Harry.
Secrets are secret for a reason. Someone I know tried it on with with my buddy's wife, and it wasn't exactly a hostile approach. My buddy disturbed them in the early stages before it got out of hand. I know he (the cad) did this, but he doesn't know I know. My buddy wants me to imagine it hadn't happened, for he is hoping time will heal his marriage, and it never needs to be mentioned again. I wish he'd never told me of the original deed. I can't look the cad in the eye and consider him my friend anymore. He's just a slimy turd, and always will be. Every time I see the woman, I think "whore".
Between the pair of them, Manning and Assange are despicable ****s.
I trust this clears up any confusion.
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Does it matter where his server is ? If it's connected to the Internet, it's available for hacking, regardless of location.
And if he happened to vacate the planet for whatever reason, I don't think it would be a great loss.
And if he happened to vacate the planet for whatever reason, I don't think it would be a great loss.
No, it matters not where his server is but what IS important is that people who hold opinions like yourself are in the minority. The disappearance of some really evil people from this planet is not to be lamented, however I don't think Assange falls into this category.
Please don't confuse the embarrassment of governments/politicians with the release of documents which do not compromise the security of our frontline troops.
Secrets are secret for a reason. Someone I know tried it on with with my buddy's wife, and it wasn't exactly a hostile approach. My buddy disturbed them in the early stages before it got out of hand. I know he (the cad) did this, but he doesn't know I know. My buddy wants me to imagine it hadn't happened, for he is hoping time will heal his marriage, and it never needs to be mentioned again. I wish he'd never told me of the original deed. I can't look the cad in the eye and consider him my friend anymore. He's just a slimy turd, and always will be. Every time I see the woman, I think "whore".
Roadster
As above. Land of the free.....where would that be. All that this guy has done is make the USA's "allies" aware of what a bunch of lying treacherous Ar$$eholes they are.
Last edited by Shack37; 1st Sep 2011 at 14:32.
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And had a UK soldier done the same, that's all he would be doing. It doesn't make it right though. Manning knew better. Assange is primping his prima donna feathers.
As for my analogy, that's all it was. Of course a minor domestic situation isn't to be compared with a National Security issue. Nothing to do with mindsets. I was merely pointing out that once you become aware of something, it changes your perception; whether that be on a personal or governmental basis.
As for my analogy, that's all it was. Of course a minor domestic situation isn't to be compared with a National Security issue. Nothing to do with mindsets. I was merely pointing out that once you become aware of something, it changes your perception; whether that be on a personal or governmental basis.
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Secrets are secret for a reason. Someone I know tried it on with with my buddy's wife, and it wasn't exactly a hostile approach. My buddy disturbed them in the early stages before it got out of hand. I know he (the cad) did this, but he doesn't know I know. My buddy wants me to imagine it hadn't happened, for he is hoping time will heal his marriage, and it never needs to be mentioned again. I wish he'd never told me of the original deed. I can't look the cad in the eye and consider him my friend anymore. He's just a slimy turd, and always will be. Every time I see the woman, I think "whore".
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And had a UK soldier done the same, that's all he would be doing. It doesn't make it right though. Manning knew better. Assange is primping his prima donna feathers.
This is why so many of our frontline servicemen and women continue to lack adequate equipment for combat duties. Whistleblowing under these circumstances is not treason, it's a patriotic duty.
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Shack
"Please don't confuse the embarrassment of governments/politicians with the release of documents which do not compromise the security of our frontline troops."
I don't confuse the issues. He may not have named names but just like intelligence Services, the enemy will be able to put 2 and 2 together and work out what is what and who is who. It also gives more info to the enemy on the Intelligence picture and how it occurs - all potential ammunition for them to use in the future to make it harder to get this info which in turn means it may
"compromise the security of our front line troops'. Anyone is capable of seeing a pattern and using it to their own advantage.
And now the latest release of documents with names still in the cables,
well, ................... Supposedly, the password was included in a book about Wikileaks but the password was useless without the file containing the cables. And then someone found the file. So the password by itself was useless but someone put 2 and 2 together.
I'll agree with Roadster. "Between the pair of them, Manning and Assange are despicable ****s."
.
"Please don't confuse the embarrassment of governments/politicians with the release of documents which do not compromise the security of our frontline troops."
I don't confuse the issues. He may not have named names but just like intelligence Services, the enemy will be able to put 2 and 2 together and work out what is what and who is who. It also gives more info to the enemy on the Intelligence picture and how it occurs - all potential ammunition for them to use in the future to make it harder to get this info which in turn means it may
"compromise the security of our front line troops'. Anyone is capable of seeing a pattern and using it to their own advantage.
And now the latest release of documents with names still in the cables,
well, ................... Supposedly, the password was included in a book about Wikileaks but the password was useless without the file containing the cables. And then someone found the file. So the password by itself was useless but someone put 2 and 2 together.
I'll agree with Roadster. "Between the pair of them, Manning and Assange are despicable ****s."
.
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Manning should not have done it, Assange is no different to any other journo out there, all of whom would sell their Grandmothers for a scoop/exclusive. Sadly Manning is a discredit to his uniform but at the end of the day all Assange did was publish the truth. What's the problem? LIve with it get on with it and in the future maybe politicians should not be such scheming lying bar stewards.
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is there a sub judice or reporting restriction law in the USA? Manning has not been to trial yet and so has not been found guilty. As this forum is owned by an American company some of the comments above, while possibly justified, could be opening a can of legal worms
1) comments prejudicial to a fair trial 2) possible libel if he's found not guilty, or not actually tried?
1) comments prejudicial to a fair trial 2) possible libel if he's found not guilty, or not actually tried?
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The irony of it...
""A Guardian journalist has, in a previously undetected act of gross negligence or malice, and in violation of a signed security agreement with the Guardian's editor-in-chief Alan Rusbridger, disclosed top secret decryption passwords to the entire, unredacted, Wikileaks Cablegate archive," Wikileaks said."
Wikileaks accuses the guardian of leaking unredacted cables- The Inquirer
""A Guardian journalist has, in a previously undetected act of gross negligence or malice, and in violation of a signed security agreement with the Guardian's editor-in-chief Alan Rusbridger, disclosed top secret decryption passwords to the entire, unredacted, Wikileaks Cablegate archive," Wikileaks said."
Wikileaks accuses the guardian of leaking unredacted cables- The Inquirer
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Originally Posted by Roadster280
...The man disgusts me. If he cannot be tried for treason, and face the death penalty,...
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If this information is so critical why was a Private allowed access to such a broad range of secret information. I imagine some higher ups are happy to let Julian Assange or anyone else take the heat for what can only be a serious lack of common sense security on their part.
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cazatou
True, but he was actually promoting foreign propaganda. This guy didn't seem to be promoting any nation's agenda.
Also, as I understand it the UK doesn't have a death penalty anymore (we do in the United States, however).
ColinB
Agreed
Roadster280
That's not 100% certain. For all we know the US government might have done it. After all, the intelligence agencies has more than adequate capabilities to decrypt the files, then release them. Sure it would leave some sources out to dry, but it would justify bringing the hammer down on WikiLeaks and Julian Assange for good. It could even be used to justify various forms of internet censorship.
Seems so simple, except sometimes the government misuses the classification system not to protect the nation from enemy attack, but to insulate itself from scrutiny.
In the case where the classification was only to protect the nation, you would have a much better argument
"Lord Haw Haw" (William Joyce) was a civilian - didn't save him from the Gallows though.
Also, as I understand it the UK doesn't have a death penalty anymore (we do in the United States, however).
ColinB
Posting from France you may recall the Dreyfus case where if someone had have had the fortitude to blow the the whistle a terrible injustice would have been avoided.
Roadster280
Assange decides to publish it for his own self-aggrandisement purposes.
Secrets are secret for a reason.
In the case where the classification was only to protect the nation, you would have a much better argument
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All WikiLeaks' secret US cables are on BitTorrent in full ? The Register "Wikileaks has accused a Guardian journalist of negligently publishing the passphrase for a database of unredacted secret US diplomatic cables in a book. The encrypted database is available on BitTorrent. The book by David Leigh, Inside Julian Assange's War on Secrecy, contains an excerpt explaining how he persuaded Julian Assange™ to give him the PGP passphrase, named as ACollectionOfDiplomaticHistory_Since_1966_ToThe_PresentDay#. "