PVRs started.....
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The RAF have made a load of aircrew redundant to save money - nothing to do with numbers or anytning else - they could have 'held' for however long - as has happened in the past.
So, the RAF now need to go to MP's and explain that they are paying huge FRI's for the same reason they made people redundant. It is simple - they say to MP's 'We made people redundant because we have no money to train, and we need to pay FRI's because we have no money to train'. They explain that a chap approaching an option (38,44 etc), or 5 years on PAS etc - is getting 250-300k because that is less than a tenth of the cost of training his replacement if he leaves., It is plain numbers. Forget (as others have mentioned) experience etc - the Gov't are really thick, and MP's and senior officers care onlty about appearance, about what will get them (re)elected or promoted - we all know this. It is about money - senior officers patently don't care about the people who work for them - that much is obvious from the self-serving and constantly defeatist decisions that they make - but here is a 'win'. They can SAVE money and make the RAF more effective by paying a bunch of money to retain their best pilots and avoid (for the time being!) training their replacements.
FRI's , if correctly aimed, will save millions. Unfortunately, manning will be the ones taking the shot.
So, the RAF now need to go to MP's and explain that they are paying huge FRI's for the same reason they made people redundant. It is simple - they say to MP's 'We made people redundant because we have no money to train, and we need to pay FRI's because we have no money to train'. They explain that a chap approaching an option (38,44 etc), or 5 years on PAS etc - is getting 250-300k because that is less than a tenth of the cost of training his replacement if he leaves., It is plain numbers. Forget (as others have mentioned) experience etc - the Gov't are really thick, and MP's and senior officers care onlty about appearance, about what will get them (re)elected or promoted - we all know this. It is about money - senior officers patently don't care about the people who work for them - that much is obvious from the self-serving and constantly defeatist decisions that they make - but here is a 'win'. They can SAVE money and make the RAF more effective by paying a bunch of money to retain their best pilots and avoid (for the time being!) training their replacements.
FRI's , if correctly aimed, will save millions. Unfortunately, manning will be the ones taking the shot.
Last edited by chopabeefer; 24th Jul 2011 at 14:21.
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Still reckon the bean counters will laugh at any request for money for FRI's.
And no, I've no vested interest, I'm not a pilot.
FRI's , if correctly aimed, will save millions. Unfortunately, manning will be the ones taking the shot. Cue a lot of bizarre trades getting huge bonuses whilst aircrew leave in droves...
I'm not convinced that, unlike the late 1970s, salaries and allowances are the root of the RAF's current malaise. From what I hear, it seems more the constant operational tempo, lack of variety, primitive working conditions, shagged out old aeroplanes, fleets being cut, bases being closed....
Is it surprising that so many pilots have PVR'd? Hardly.
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Quite true Beags (probably!)
I dont think it ever is just down to money. Quality of life has always been the driving factor to those I know that banged out (myself included).
Add to that poor accomodation at plenty of of bases (single and married), erosion of the work/life balance, continual feeling that you're getting shafted over T&Cs, allowances etc etc
It all adds up to not enjoying the good bits as much, because they're now outnumbered by the bad bits...
I dont think it ever is just down to money. Quality of life has always been the driving factor to those I know that banged out (myself included).
constant operational tempo, lack of variety, primitive working conditions, shagged out old aeroplanes, fleets being cut, bases being closed
It all adds up to not enjoying the good bits as much, because they're now outnumbered by the bad bits...
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It may not be about the money, but offer people enough, and they will suck it up.
Seeing as they cant fix the wound (old ac, no variety, poor/non-existent training) a short term sticking plaster (250K FRI?) will have to do.
Do I think it will happen? Not a chance!
Seeing as they cant fix the wound (old ac, no variety, poor/non-existent training) a short term sticking plaster (250K FRI?) will have to do.
Do I think it will happen? Not a chance!
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Have the so called decision makers ever studied Frederick Herzberg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and his motivation theories? It is not just financial remuneration. I was promised the earth to stay on after my 16/38 point. The few colleagues of mine of similar seniority who elected to stick it out made at least Gp Capt, three Air Rank. What are the chances of this in the current shrinking Royal Air Force. There doesn't seem to me any future for anyone looking for promotion. However, I must say that I enjoyed my job more in rather than out. But, that was 16 years ago.
Yup, Project SIRIUS has done it for me. I am 3 years substantive in Rank but according to SIRIUS I will become "Main Stream" on 1 Sep 11 - effectively, that means I am now "done" and have no chance of advancement in Rank or a Command Tour. Even with a B+ "Yes" on my last OJAR after 3 years in Rank.
So this was the straw that broke the Camels back - it added to the lack of SFA, potential pension changes, changes in Flying Pay rules in ground tours (which would be a disaster under a 4 year SIRIUS posting), resetting of leave at each tour change, 2 year pay freeze and allowance cuts (which probably amounts to a 15% cut), CEA changes (including non-INVOLSEP in London posts) and the ever shifting sands that are DRU/Defence Transformation and the Command Structure Review (that HQ Air have so far taken 2 years to implement and all we have seen is an extra 2-star post!!!).
I can honestly say, I have never seen morale so bad, and I have seen some VERY good people PVR recently who would not fit redundancy (I also do not fit the redundancy trawl, hence my decision to resign my regular comission).
So I have squared myself a new job, one that I enjoy doing, and I will be leaving Autumn/Winter 2011.
LJ
So this was the straw that broke the Camels back - it added to the lack of SFA, potential pension changes, changes in Flying Pay rules in ground tours (which would be a disaster under a 4 year SIRIUS posting), resetting of leave at each tour change, 2 year pay freeze and allowance cuts (which probably amounts to a 15% cut), CEA changes (including non-INVOLSEP in London posts) and the ever shifting sands that are DRU/Defence Transformation and the Command Structure Review (that HQ Air have so far taken 2 years to implement and all we have seen is an extra 2-star post!!!).
I can honestly say, I have never seen morale so bad, and I have seen some VERY good people PVR recently who would not fit redundancy (I also do not fit the redundancy trawl, hence my decision to resign my regular comission).
So I have squared myself a new job, one that I enjoy doing, and I will be leaving Autumn/Winter 2011.
LJ
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Yep, I totally agree. Lets pay less money to keep guys in who are older, usually have greater family commitments, and who are less adaptable to the needs of the service (be it cost cuts, extended deployments, reduced allowances).
At the end of the day, it is the needs of the service that are important. The deal everyone receives can hardly be described as atrocious. There is a queue (quite literally) of people ready to step into our shoes, so regardless of experience, if you are deadwood and unable to adapt to the change, move over and let a new generation carry the baton.
Let us not forget that the service can continue with an experience shortage. With the attitude of some on here I can genuinely say that we are probably better off without your toxicity.
At the end of the day, it is the needs of the service that are important. The deal everyone receives can hardly be described as atrocious. There is a queue (quite literally) of people ready to step into our shoes, so regardless of experience, if you are deadwood and unable to adapt to the change, move over and let a new generation carry the baton.
Let us not forget that the service can continue with an experience shortage. With the attitude of some on here I can genuinely say that we are probably better off without your toxicity.
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Alexander,
A little strong but not far off. For every Sqn Cdr there are plenty of Flt Cdrs capable of moving up, and there are plenty of extremely capable deputies in all roles.
The constant drip on here about loss experience is self inflated tosh. Not guilty of "bigging himself up" but one of the best assets in the J world has told us on here he has had enough and for a whole bunch of grown up reasons he is off.
There is no doubt he will be sorely missed but i would bet my mortgage he has lined his successor up to ensure that normal, or as close to normal service continues once he has departed.
Two great analogies about those who think they are oh so important,
Put your hand in a bucket of water and when you take it out notice that nothing has changed.
On your final day in the service, having said all your goodbyes, as you get to the main gate nobody gives a **** if you turn right or left.
Experience my arse, put your papers in and let the next equally as capable guy/girl have a go
A little strong but not far off. For every Sqn Cdr there are plenty of Flt Cdrs capable of moving up, and there are plenty of extremely capable deputies in all roles.
The constant drip on here about loss experience is self inflated tosh. Not guilty of "bigging himself up" but one of the best assets in the J world has told us on here he has had enough and for a whole bunch of grown up reasons he is off.
There is no doubt he will be sorely missed but i would bet my mortgage he has lined his successor up to ensure that normal, or as close to normal service continues once he has departed.
Two great analogies about those who think they are oh so important,
Put your hand in a bucket of water and when you take it out notice that nothing has changed.
On your final day in the service, having said all your goodbyes, as you get to the main gate nobody gives a **** if you turn right or left.
Experience my arse, put your papers in and let the next equally as capable guy/girl have a go
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On your final day in the service, having said all your goodbyes, as you get to the main gate nobody gives a **** if you turn right or left.
And not just of the service...it is true of virtually every job you ever leave.
Told my son that just last week.
Believe me, I don't believe that I am of unwarranted importance, however, as a collective I believe I may be one of a "thousand cuts" about to be inflicted on quite a sick organisation at the moment. There have been twice the numbers of PVRs this year in the first 6 months. I rather suspect that this will be a tip of a very large iceberg. Why?...
There will be a raft of those hoping for redundancy that won't get it. They will already have prepared themselves to leave, and when they don't get it, they will PVR just after 1 Sep 11. Yes, there will be some quality individuals to fill the gaps, but I suspect not enough. I also believe that some squadrons will end up with a dilution rate worse than that in the late 90s (about 65% diluted, ie. less than 2 years on type).
Yes, no one will care when you leave, but I will equally not be mawkish when I go. I had a great time but in the past 2 years things have definately got worse. Also, the T&C changes of late means that for me, the deal is off.
LJ
There will be a raft of those hoping for redundancy that won't get it. They will already have prepared themselves to leave, and when they don't get it, they will PVR just after 1 Sep 11. Yes, there will be some quality individuals to fill the gaps, but I suspect not enough. I also believe that some squadrons will end up with a dilution rate worse than that in the late 90s (about 65% diluted, ie. less than 2 years on type).
Yes, no one will care when you leave, but I will equally not be mawkish when I go. I had a great time but in the past 2 years things have definately got worse. Also, the T&C changes of late means that for me, the deal is off.
LJ
Add a few more to the list!
There are a number of folk still inside ROS that are planning on leaving as soon as their time is up. Still enjoy the flying (what little there is) but its the little hoops you have to jump through like secondary duties, endless check rides and having another evening/weekend stolen from you at 1630 cos there is an important engineering ground run to do.
Death by a thousand cuts
Death by a thousand cuts
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Seldom:
You are most fortunate to have a pleasant view from the morale highground on which you persistantly advise is your standpoint. But one mans "tosh" is another mans "blinkers" and it is you that needs to open your eyes and see what debris resides on the squadrons from which you came. It is not a pretty sight, and whilst you hold no kudos with "experience", the fact is that a lack of it contributed significantly to the problems the Puma fleet had/maybe even have.
There is a Manning crisis unfolding from under your eyes. It is true that there are many simply happy to a job of any description, but it is equally true that the people we need most are choosing to exit stage right. I am sure the 'damage limitation' by Manning will be managed to make the reduction in overall numbers within target, and those that believe nobody cares are spot on.... to a point: The Command-chain and Manning may not care; but those left behind care, those who operate under rescourced and without the benefit of war-story knowledge handed down that will at some stage be reflected in Flight Safety stats.
As I said; the lofty perch on which you sit may be a good job, with good Execs/OC and admin support. I dont begrudge it, but you should value it, for it is becoming a rare comodity. ....and think before assuming that everybody else is also working for the few good eggs still around.
Try living in a 12`x 8` box room, 300 miles from home for a tour with sh**e food and too many knobbers in your decision making process and see how quickly you join the PVR club.
You are most fortunate to have a pleasant view from the morale highground on which you persistantly advise is your standpoint. But one mans "tosh" is another mans "blinkers" and it is you that needs to open your eyes and see what debris resides on the squadrons from which you came. It is not a pretty sight, and whilst you hold no kudos with "experience", the fact is that a lack of it contributed significantly to the problems the Puma fleet had/maybe even have.
There is a Manning crisis unfolding from under your eyes. It is true that there are many simply happy to a job of any description, but it is equally true that the people we need most are choosing to exit stage right. I am sure the 'damage limitation' by Manning will be managed to make the reduction in overall numbers within target, and those that believe nobody cares are spot on.... to a point: The Command-chain and Manning may not care; but those left behind care, those who operate under rescourced and without the benefit of war-story knowledge handed down that will at some stage be reflected in Flight Safety stats.
As I said; the lofty perch on which you sit may be a good job, with good Execs/OC and admin support. I dont begrudge it, but you should value it, for it is becoming a rare comodity. ....and think before assuming that everybody else is also working for the few good eggs still around.
Try living in a 12`x 8` box room, 300 miles from home for a tour with sh**e food and too many knobbers in your decision making process and see how quickly you join the PVR club.