300 Metres of Chinese Whoopass !
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And the 3rd and 4th one's which are likely to be Nuclear powered
Mcjlf1 wrote
The Chinese will be operating the Shenyang J-15 from the carrier using the ski-ramp. The J-15 is a variant of the Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker.
J-15 testing in China.
Shenyang J-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
J-15 | Global Military
See ramp on Russian carrier operating Flanker.
JT
As it appears to have a ski jump, are the Chinese perhaps going to buy the Harriers?
J-15 testing in China.
Shenyang J-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
J-15 | Global Military
See ramp on Russian carrier operating Flanker.
JT
What is the point of a non Vstol Aircraft using a ski jump ?
So you avoid the weight / complexity of a catapult but how much of a weapons load can you lift staggering into the air barely above stall speed ?
It seems impressive watching the Russian fighter but it doesn't seem very practical.
Did the Harrier not go off the end of the ski jump at 70-90
knots below normal flying speed ?
Being able to go to an intermediate nozzle position at that point augmenting aerodynamic lift with vertical thrust allowed it to carry a decent payload
Just don't see the point, this carrier must have an arresting wire system to stop it's Aircraft so why not go all the way and install catapults ?
So you avoid the weight / complexity of a catapult but how much of a weapons load can you lift staggering into the air barely above stall speed ?
It seems impressive watching the Russian fighter but it doesn't seem very practical.
Did the Harrier not go off the end of the ski jump at 70-90
knots below normal flying speed ?
Being able to go to an intermediate nozzle position at that point augmenting aerodynamic lift with vertical thrust allowed it to carry a decent payload
Just don't see the point, this carrier must have an arresting wire system to stop it's Aircraft so why not go all the way and install catapults ?
"What is the point of a non Vstol Aircraft using a ski jump ?
...staggering into the air barely above stall speed ?"
I am starting to despair at the educational standard on this forum.
...staggering into the air barely above stall speed ?"
I am starting to despair at the educational standard on this forum.
Stilton, the whole point is that if they're doing it right they should be launching at below stall speed. The remaining runway required to accelerate to above (1g) stall speed is in the sky. It doesn't stall because while using the runway in the sky the aircraft should be at an angle of attack well below the stall AoA, which it can afford to be at because it doesn't need to produce >1g Nz until it's used up the upwards momentum* provided by the ramp, by which time it will be going much faster and can generate 1g+ with a sensible AoA. The relevance of V/STOL is a herring almost as red as the Chairman Mao bookshop 'classics' shelf.
Hope that helps
*yes, I'm aware that Lt Cdr Taylor's original idea included extending the semi-ballistic trajectory well into the downward phase as well, but let's keep things simple eh?
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Anyone got a clue as to what the underwater arrangement, as shown at 1:52 on THIS video is? ?
Last edited by glad rag; 11th Jun 2011 at 10:25. Reason: wrong video originally quoted, sorry TEEEJ.
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oldgrubber
That article seems to be a strange cut and paste mix of truth and crap.
"It adds buoyancy to the bow, reducing drag for better handling at sea and providing lift to the flight deck."
=Crap
but the next paragraph is all good, then the rest seems to be lifted from some very very old documents suggesting that it is a new idea?
That article seems to be a strange cut and paste mix of truth and crap.
"It adds buoyancy to the bow, reducing drag for better handling at sea and providing lift to the flight deck."
=Crap
but the next paragraph is all good, then the rest seems to be lifted from some very very old documents suggesting that it is a new idea?
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I was taught that it all came about because of a WW1 US Navy destroyer being fitted with a special new sonar in a bulbous nose and finding it had gained a couple of knots in trials. They then worked back to a theory justifying it.
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Hmm ,yes, jamesdevice, that's what I thought at first, but I now think a bit of perspective coming into it, are they in fact not further and higher back that first appears? sponsons???
Poor quality video doesn't help, to quote "was it taken with a bar code reader"
Anyway back on topic.
GR
Poor quality video doesn't help, to quote "was it taken with a bar code reader"
Anyway back on topic.
GR
Nobody does carrier ops better than the USN--night, IFR, combat--developed thru slathers of experience in WW II, Korea and Vietnam. I takes a helluva team effort to make a carrier work, all of it voluntary and properly trained and led. I don't see any threat from China or Russia's efforts at carrier ops anytime soon.
Tip of the Hat to the RN who developed angled flight decks, steam cats and the "meatball' without which carrier ops would still have paddles and barrier.
Tip of the Hat to the RN who developed angled flight decks, steam cats and the "meatball' without which carrier ops would still have paddles and barrier.
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... until it's used up the upwards momentum* provided by the ramp...
Upwards momentum provided by the ramp? Explain that some more.
Question: does the aircraft's speed increase as it climbs the ramp?
Upwards momentum provided by the ramp? Explain that some more.
Question: does the aircraft's speed increase as it climbs the ramp?
Last edited by Modern Elmo; 12th Jun 2011 at 01:19.
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I'll give the Rooskies credit for having good-looking warships ... very, what's the word? rakish ... got those low, long main deck "through lines." Lotsa guns and missiles showing ... ( maybe not many reloads below deck, however. )
I'm sure the designers claim that the ships look that way for purely functional reasons ... not really the truth. There's a video of that aircracft carrier in heavy seas. Doesn't look like it has enough freeboard.
I'm sure the designers claim that the ships look that way for purely functional reasons ... not really the truth. There's a video of that aircracft carrier in heavy seas. Doesn't look like it has enough freeboard.
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Upwards momentum provided by the ramp? Explain that some more.
Question: does the aircraft's speed increase as it climbs the ramp?
Question: does the aircraft's speed increase as it climbs the ramp?
And yes, the a/c 'speed' will increase as long as there is enough thrust to overcome the effects of gravity - the steeper the ramp the greater the effect of the a/c's weight. If we imagine an a/c that weighs 60,000 lb and has 40,000 lb of thrust, on a 30 degree incline 30,000 lb of thrust will be needed to act against the weight leaving 10,000 lb to accelerate the a/c. Acceleration = F/M = 1/6. On a level runway all the thrust will act to accelerate the a/c: A = 4/6
... until it's used up the upwards momentum* provided by the ramp...
Question: does the aircraft's speed increase as it climbs the ramp?
Fair point though and when I wrote that I suspected someone might pick up on it. Are we agreed though, that neglecting ship motion (at your peril!) the momentum comes from the aircraft's engine(s) but that the ramp ensures that there is a useful upwards component? Flat deck - no upwards momentum at deck-exit. Ramp - upwards momentum with the same aeroplane at deck exit. So in a "big picture" sense if not a mathematically-correct one, the ramp provides the upwards momentum. The upwards momentum is way more relevant then the slight KE to PE trade effect on speed as the aircraft climbs the ramp.
To answer you final question, in my experience it always did, substantially. Of course it wouldn't if the aircraft engine stopped working.
Do you think I've answered the original question now?
The Chinese do not have the expertise or the experience to build and operate aircraft carriers. This ship is just a tool to assess whether the abiliity is available in China.
They will build more carriers, if only for national pride.
If you are an established naval architect with experience in modern carriers get you CV in now, because there is a fortune to be made. The same goes for naval personel with experience in the training role. Join the club and stand under a waterfall of money.
They will build more carriers, if only for national pride.
If you are an established naval architect with experience in modern carriers get you CV in now, because there is a fortune to be made. The same goes for naval personel with experience in the training role. Join the club and stand under a waterfall of money.