Apocryphal SWO stories out there.......
There has been a little interest in Warrant Officers as a breed, so I post below, with diffidence, an offering I made on the Great War Forum yesterday.
The First Warrant Officers were not Conductors
Recent research on the Great War Forum has revealed that the oft-heard claim by Conductors that they were and are primus inter pares cannot be upheld. It is true that warrants were granted to some Conductors in 1879, some two years before a more general upgrading of status for other Staff-sergeants 1st class such as Sergeant-Majors.
It is also true that the Royal Navy had warranted officers in Nelson’s time and continuously thereafter, such as Sailing Master, Gunner, Carpenter, Boatswain.
There is now available at
Mysterious Schoolmasters 1st Class Warrant Officers. - Other Great War Chat - Great War Forum
firm evidence that some Army Schoolmasters held warrant rank as early as 1854. They lost this status temporarily in 1863, and regained it in 1881, but they were not placed in the highest seniority sub-section of warrant officers, which included Conductors and Master Gunners 1st class. The Queen’s or King’s Regulations were at pains from time to time to point out that the members of all four groups were placed alphabetically, thus denying Conductors any primacy except alphabetical. Although the list contents have varied over the years, this top group always included titles such as:
Conductors
Master Gunners 1st Class
Staff sergeant-major 1st class.
When in 1899 a rank of Schoolmaster 1st Class Warrant Officer was introduced, it was added to this elite list, an indication of how far the army had progressed in attempting to improve and educate its soldiers. Schoolmaster Warrant Officers remained and were on an inferior list of course.
Among the Warrant Officers the Schoolmaster’s pay was usually at the top end of the scale which, together with his sometimes grand officer-style uniform, emphasised his status. This uniform and his rank badges varied greatly over the years.
Seniority within groups was ordered to be by date of promotion or appointment, although clearly in the exercise of their normal duties there would be no doubt who would command: nobody would dispute artillery with a Master-Gunner, or argue the toss with a Master-at-Arms RN at sea, or an RAF Station Warrant Officer on his station.
As with many other things, the Great War changed everything, and by 1923 Schoolmasters as such are missing from the precedence table of Warrant Officers, except as Warrant Officer Instructors, Class II [Education].
As a footnote, there was a brief flurry of order/ counter order in 1881 which did indeed place Conductors above all others [perhaps inspired by the Conductors themselves]!. This was very quickly rescinded, so that although they retained certain unique privileges, they were placed within a peer group which the schoolmasters eventually had climbed back up to after a lapse of many years.
The First Warrant Officers were not Conductors
Recent research on the Great War Forum has revealed that the oft-heard claim by Conductors that they were and are primus inter pares cannot be upheld. It is true that warrants were granted to some Conductors in 1879, some two years before a more general upgrading of status for other Staff-sergeants 1st class such as Sergeant-Majors.
It is also true that the Royal Navy had warranted officers in Nelson’s time and continuously thereafter, such as Sailing Master, Gunner, Carpenter, Boatswain.
There is now available at
Mysterious Schoolmasters 1st Class Warrant Officers. - Other Great War Chat - Great War Forum
firm evidence that some Army Schoolmasters held warrant rank as early as 1854. They lost this status temporarily in 1863, and regained it in 1881, but they were not placed in the highest seniority sub-section of warrant officers, which included Conductors and Master Gunners 1st class. The Queen’s or King’s Regulations were at pains from time to time to point out that the members of all four groups were placed alphabetically, thus denying Conductors any primacy except alphabetical. Although the list contents have varied over the years, this top group always included titles such as:
Conductors
Master Gunners 1st Class
Staff sergeant-major 1st class.
When in 1899 a rank of Schoolmaster 1st Class Warrant Officer was introduced, it was added to this elite list, an indication of how far the army had progressed in attempting to improve and educate its soldiers. Schoolmaster Warrant Officers remained and were on an inferior list of course.
Among the Warrant Officers the Schoolmaster’s pay was usually at the top end of the scale which, together with his sometimes grand officer-style uniform, emphasised his status. This uniform and his rank badges varied greatly over the years.
Seniority within groups was ordered to be by date of promotion or appointment, although clearly in the exercise of their normal duties there would be no doubt who would command: nobody would dispute artillery with a Master-Gunner, or argue the toss with a Master-at-Arms RN at sea, or an RAF Station Warrant Officer on his station.
As with many other things, the Great War changed everything, and by 1923 Schoolmasters as such are missing from the precedence table of Warrant Officers, except as Warrant Officer Instructors, Class II [Education].
As a footnote, there was a brief flurry of order/ counter order in 1881 which did indeed place Conductors above all others [perhaps inspired by the Conductors themselves]!. This was very quickly rescinded, so that although they retained certain unique privileges, they were placed within a peer group which the schoolmasters eventually had climbed back up to after a lapse of many years.
langleybaston, noticed in your URL:
Nicely timed - Phew! 
72523 Warrant Officer 1st Class, John Francis Eely, Corps of Army School Masters.
He attested as an Army Schoolmaster on 3rd January, 1883 and was promoted to Warrant Office on 3rd January, 1895.
WO Eely was discharged on 2nd January, 1913
He attested as an Army Schoolmaster on 3rd January, 1883 and was promoted to Warrant Office on 3rd January, 1895.
WO Eely was discharged on 2nd January, 1913
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Nutloose, many thanks, that fills a few gaps for me.
TT
Further to serial 205. I also remember the SWO at Gaydon . Mr Matusjek - well done for remembering his name, I could only remember that it sort of rhymed with matchstick. I remember him complaining: "There are too many damned foreigners in this air force!"
Further to serial 205. I also remember the SWO at Gaydon . Mr Matusjek - well done for remembering his name, I could only remember that it sort of rhymed with matchstick. I remember him complaining: "There are too many damned foreigners in this air force!"
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I cannot vouch for the veracity of this recollection, but, in 1956-7 there was an incident at RAF Worksop when a brick was thrown through the SWO's office window. SWO insisted that the RAFP should test said brick for fingerprints.
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Evening all,
I've spent a great hour this evening reading these stories.
My my father was an Eng WO (lecky) serving from 1955 to 1997. To allow me to finish school he has a 2 year extension taking him to ‘97. For these 2 years he was the SWO at RAF Manston and pretty much closed down the RAF side.
Over many years I heard lots of stories relating to grass, standing on hair, **** on th end of a pace stick etc... love it.
Its a scary small world... I am now a serving WO2 in the Army. Only family member not to be RAF.... rebellious or stupid - you decide ��. Since joining I’ve served at Honington where both my Father (Buccaneers) and my Brother (TWCU) served. My MQ was next door to the MQ I spent 2 very young years in.
2 years ago, for my sins, I attended a Fire Safety Cse at Manston. Sad to see the old Sgts Mess in wreck n ruin. Many happy Sunday’s playing snooker with the old man. For the course we stayed in the old Officers, now combined, mess. Walking down the corridor and I find my old man staring at me in a photo.
All in all happy memories and the above thread warmed the cockles. If anyone has any stories, good or bad from Manston 1989-1997 to tell please do.
Thanks.
I've spent a great hour this evening reading these stories.
My my father was an Eng WO (lecky) serving from 1955 to 1997. To allow me to finish school he has a 2 year extension taking him to ‘97. For these 2 years he was the SWO at RAF Manston and pretty much closed down the RAF side.
Over many years I heard lots of stories relating to grass, standing on hair, **** on th end of a pace stick etc... love it.
Its a scary small world... I am now a serving WO2 in the Army. Only family member not to be RAF.... rebellious or stupid - you decide ��. Since joining I’ve served at Honington where both my Father (Buccaneers) and my Brother (TWCU) served. My MQ was next door to the MQ I spent 2 very young years in.
2 years ago, for my sins, I attended a Fire Safety Cse at Manston. Sad to see the old Sgts Mess in wreck n ruin. Many happy Sunday’s playing snooker with the old man. For the course we stayed in the old Officers, now combined, mess. Walking down the corridor and I find my old man staring at me in a photo.
All in all happy memories and the above thread warmed the cockles. If anyone has any stories, good or bad from Manston 1989-1997 to tell please do.
Thanks.
MAc - make me feel VERY old - my Manston memories are of mid -late 60s, when as a very junior pilot on 360 and still on the most flimsy of instrument ratings I was sent off to build hours on a Friday afternoon and often got diverted to Manston, to spend a long dreary weekend in flying kit with only the fruit machine for company
IIRC there was no SWO at Manston in the early/mid 70s, a Sgt or Flt Sgt discipline held the post. The manning was too small to warrant a "Warrant".
Circa 1976, RAF Colerne Easter Parade in Bath, on falling out after march past to enter the church, one hapless airman entered the church with his hat on after joe public had all taken their places, only to hear, in the best parade ground manner, the SWO shout “get your hat off in the House of the Lord.......*@%+!”. Surprisingly he was gone by Monday morning.
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In 1978 I arrived at Shawbury and reported to the guardroom to enquire as to where I might be accommodated. I was told to come inside and they would sort it out. Whilst waiting by the Ord Sgt's desk I could hear the shouting of "Left,right,left,right,right wheel, left wheel left, right, left, right, mark time, halt!" in a very loud roar. Stood in from of the desk was a JT wearing a raincoat, minus buttons, a working blue shirt, not properly buttoned up with his face and hands covered in oil and grease, wearing shoes that had not seen polish for at least two years and the filthiest pair of trousers I have ever seen. (As a young LAC newly arrived from Swinderby I was suitably alarmed by all the noise). The shouting, roaring voice was the SWO. He turned to the Ord Sgt and said "Sgt, charge him!", "What with?" asked the Sgt. "EVERYTHING!!!!!!" screamed the SWO and stormed off.
Last edited by tomdocherty72; 19th Apr 2018 at 14:40. Reason: Spelling error
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In Jan 82, St Athan was closed for 72 hours after the worst snow in living memory. PMAR decided it would be a good idea to build a ' giant snow phallus', bang outside the Ante room, so off we went. Now he modelled this around some sort of large stone ornament in the shape of a I believe a bird table. Phallus finished we retired to the mess. Some time in the afternoon as we contemplated another snow outing, a heavily clothed figure appeared outside and took a swift kick at the phallus. The kicker fell over and then hopped around in agony, then limped slowly away. The figure never entered the mess and we weren't sure if it was the SWO, but our belief then was that it was. We stood sniggering in the warmth of the Ante room like the schoolboys we had been some months previously.
PMAR,one of the best!
PMAR,one of the best!
The snowman was rebuilt, just this time around a concrete bollard, and the lads awaited Plod's return .. And they were not disappointed with the results
Cor, there's a name from the past. I went to school at Kineton with his son, Leo.
Greatcoat
Was talking to a mate who was in and he told me this pearler.
Chap in his section (Bloogs) having a bad time (divorce) and was a bit skint. Decided to sell his greatcoat to make a few quid. Tells my mate who says 'err, not a good idea.....I know nothing'.
Well before ebay so puts an advert in the local paper. leaves rank insignia on etc. Tragically paper bought and read by the SWO. Steam coming out of ears, SWO rings Bloggs number (internal number at the station) to enquire about coat.
Bloggs answers phone, and answers a few questions from SWO, who then asks 'Do you know who this is? This is the SWO. Report to my office NOW'.
Bloggs immediately pops off to see the SWO, with his hat, and walks through the door to be greeted by a very stern looking SWO.
'1250!! Barks the SWO
'I was hoping for a bit more than that frankly sir. I was expecting at least 15 quid?'
SWO collapses in rage. Bloggs did get away with it though...
Chap in his section (Bloogs) having a bad time (divorce) and was a bit skint. Decided to sell his greatcoat to make a few quid. Tells my mate who says 'err, not a good idea.....I know nothing'.
Well before ebay so puts an advert in the local paper. leaves rank insignia on etc. Tragically paper bought and read by the SWO. Steam coming out of ears, SWO rings Bloggs number (internal number at the station) to enquire about coat.
Bloggs answers phone, and answers a few questions from SWO, who then asks 'Do you know who this is? This is the SWO. Report to my office NOW'.
Bloggs immediately pops off to see the SWO, with his hat, and walks through the door to be greeted by a very stern looking SWO.
'1250!! Barks the SWO
'I was hoping for a bit more than that frankly sir. I was expecting at least 15 quid?'
SWO collapses in rage. Bloggs did get away with it though...