Advice required...torch to fit in flying suit

[Deaf]

Fenix E01, 1xAAA 10 lumen for 10hrs then 1 lumen for another few hours. Twist switch. Better than the maglite AAA one and cheaper. $12.50 inc postage from dealextreme.

[appleavi8or]

Streamlight

I agree with Clockwork, try a Streamlight AAA. It has a very good throw for walkrounds & in-cabin stuff, fits neatly in a pen pocket and doesn't totally shut down goggs. Use an issue finger torch for the delicate stuff.

Uncontrolled tool my ar*e. Anyone who says that has never truly grasped SH or Army helo ops.

While you are at it, have a look at Sharpie permanent markers with 'clicky' operation. One handed note-taking and no Lumocolour cap to drop into the footwell.

[NutLoose]

If you saw some of the junk used to get thrown in the back of a helicopter you wouldn't think twice about a torch secure in the Crewmans pocket. .......... I remember upon shutdown at Gut (from the UK) in a Puma, a Sparrow appearing out of the tailboom and made it's dash for freedom out of the door.......... God knows how a deaf Sparrow speaking a different Sparrow tongue would get on in Germany, but it moved country!

Anyone remember the Pongos compressed Bullworker( remember those) that made a dash for freedom out of his backpack and up into a set of whirling Wessex rotor blades?

[StopStart]

I am not sorry to put this so bluntly but do some of you lot have a death wish?

Fantastic.... You hilarious airworthiness loon....

Here, have another.....

Remember kids, no running with scissors.

[Top Bunk Tester]

Rigga1

I speak from both side of the fence having been a rigger before aircrew. Whilst I applaud your vision of utopia, when you have to prefight a frame that you are going flying in, then you want something that works. A degree of common sense has to come into play here eg I would not use a £1 torch from the market but would have no qualms about a maglight or Peli flashlight as these companies have spent a lot of money ensuring they are sparkproof, electrically safe etc. I'm sure Boscombe would like to repeat alll of the checks that have already been done on them to keep someone in a job, but come on .... common sense.

And if memory serves me right, it was the issue, controlled, 0.0001 candlepower right angle torch that was held to blame for an unfortunately fatal Harrier mishap a few (a lot of) years ago which caused the seat drogue gun to fire and not the canopy

PS just read your last and I too did two tours on Crash n Smash, so please can you get off the high horse road.

[TheWizard]

So then, you have your MK4 (or whatever) issue torch nicely tucked in your LCJ to go night flying.Tick.

Unfortunately, in the rush to put the myriad of other kit on board the cab, you haven't attached it to a lanyard (which you don't get issued). Untick.

You go and do your walk around with your (let's face it, pretty crap) issue torch which you have now removed from it's stowage and then placed back in again (probably not fully as it is dark and time is pressing). Half a tick.

Back into the cab, sort out the cabin (or strap into the cockpit), start the engines and ready to go. Tick.

Taxi out, get airborne and get your map/chart/FLIP out for the NVG leg. Tick.

Take out your issue torch so you can see aforementioned paperwork- uh oh, no torch!! Big untick.

What do you do??

a) Fess up straight away that you have lost your issue torch and terminate the sortie as you don't know where it is?

b) Continue sortie in the safe knowledge that this was an "approved, issue torch" and therefore should be safe? (Toungue in cheek)

Now, a head torch, which you would not forget is on your head (I hope!!) can be used for the walk-around and placed safely back in a sealed pocket/rucsack/helmet bag (yes, yet more 'unapproved' items!) Whilst your 'issue' RA torch, with approved NVG filter, can stay safely attached to your LCJ by the lanyard/clip that you used BEFORE you left the Ops/briefing room, thus knowing where it is at all times.

See my point?

*Obviously this scenario is based around Rotary but can be transposed to fixed wing multis etc (Agreed, FJ is a bit different)

[Top Bunk Tester]

I would also hazard a guess that more incidents have been caused by problems being missed on a night sortie preflight due to the inadequacy of the 'issue' RAT than there have been because a none issue flashlight has been mislaid. When I became aircrew the watchword wasn't FOD or controlled tools it was 'integrity', so yes I believe most aircrew would own up to mislaying an item, or they would have done in my day.

[NutLoose]

Rigger,

I have been an engineer for some 35 years, both Military and Civilian.... One of the Best forms of Tool Control is buying them yourself, believe me when you pay a fortune for them, you make sure they are there at the end of the job, if not the aircraft goes nowhere........

You will be in for a serious eye opener when you progress on from the RAF/RN/TWAW as the majority of the tooling is supplied by the individual and it is their responsibility for there control, large companies tend to supply just the specialised stuff and that is it, I could count on one hand the companies that provide the lot as the RAF does, and to be honest you do not see 737, Gulfstreams, Squirrels, Pitts Specials or the likes falling out of the skys because of uncontrolled tools, which as being privately owned and supplied the majority are.........

Put on top of that Contractors coming in and helping out when busy leading to a rapid turnover of staffing, and the likes of drill bits, screws etc dispensed from around the hangars and disposed of afterwards.............

As for tool control in the RAF......well can't be that good, every fod plod poster you see has a 6 or 12 inch ruler in it

Ohh and as for Fod Plods, you will be pushed to see a sweeper let alone a fod plod on some Civilian international airport. The runway gets an Air tragic car down it, but that's about it.

[ShyTorque]

Rigger1, how do you think things are run in the civilian world?

I don't get issued with a torch; in fact there is no-one to issue me with one.
I had to buy my own. And my own specs, protractor, pens, ruler, etc (correction, the chinagraph's an ex-RAF one).

So do other pilots, any of whom who might fly you to and from your holidays. Horror of horrors, I also carry a Leatherman tool. Do you really think any of this is unsafe?

Oh yes; I also carry a mobile phone with me into the cockpit....

[BEagle]

You can have a pen, pencil, biro or whatever in your flying suit and the oilies won't bat an eyelid. But if they see you with a pen torch, they'll start to gibber and froth about unapproved tools...

...so sodding well invent one which works and is approved. You haven't managed that over the last 40 years....

When I did my night flying at RAFC Cranwell in the mid 1970s, 'they' were quite happy to issue me with Provost, Jet...Qty. 1, Bloggs for the flying of, but a night flying torch? No way - "Go and buy your own and make sure they're securely attached to your flying suits!", is what 'they' told us.

So, many and varied were the solutions. I bought some Ever Ready thing from Boots which was about as much use for the walkround as a dozing glow-worm. But OK if I needed to read the map or whatever. Not that we could see much anyway as this was during the 3-day week and power cuts of Grocer Heath's time.... The late Don Turbitt bought a massive bike light on a stout crocodile clip and a huge battery; lamp in one leg pocket, battery in the other, cables running up one leg and down the other. "Right, Bloggs", quoth his QFI one dark night, "Simulated total electrical failure!". He then watched in amazament as Don deployed his Thing... CLICK! Followed by the equivalent of an airborne lighthouse - the cockpit lit up most impressively and could probably be seen from orbit. When the QFI had stopped pi$$ing himself laughing and wiped away the tears, he offered Don a 'proper' aircew torch whilst he tried to get his night vision back. Another mate dropped his Ever Ready thing, then pulled on the lanyard until he felt some resistance before wisely stopping and investigating - the lanyard had become entangled in the bottom bang seat handle, which had moved fractionally.... So he pushed it home, carefully recovered the torch and landed......very gently.

After a couple of similar incidents, the CFI ordered 'them' to issue us with approved torches.....

[heights good]

Rigger1 - Can I suggest you step down from your soapbox.

My underpants are not cleared to fly in as they don't feature in any RTS, neither is my nav bag, lip light, pens, pencils, nomex gloves, go-bag, windproof smock, shemagh, name badge, sqn badge, my rank slides and so the list goes on...........

This pales into insignificance when Squaddies get on with EVERYTHING you could possibly imagine and leave it behind! I have found, condoms (unused), pick-axes, torches, phones, radios, mud, ammunition, grenades, hexi stoves, a dog (not joking), weapons, smocks, glasses, boxes, ammo tins, knives, fire extinguisher, bergans, webbing, day sacks, strops, nets, MRE's and so this list goes on as well........

Short version, it's not black and white. in the rotary world EVERYTHING comes onto the aircraft AND gets left behind and is not cleared within and RTS. Are you seriously suggesting that we don't fly these people and their various bit and pieces of equipment as its not cleared for flying in?

As your name suggests you are from the groundcrew environment can i be so bold as to request you stick to your own area of expertise (which may indeed be airworthiness) and try not to tell aircrew how to do their job as some of the kit that is issued is just not fit for purpose for various reasons.

[appleavi8or]

Reality check.

Rigger, I guess you are not a pilot? Perhaps seeing this from a pilot's perspective might modify your view a little.

Aircrew are very aware of the dangers of loose objects in aircraft. Owning private kit which works tends to make you a little more aware of it and often more likely to notice when it's not where it should be.

All the crews I have flown with are only too ready to 'fess up if they have dropped or lost something....they know the potential. I have spent days (when added up) sitting in fields, deserts or snowy plateaus while engineers sifted through the ac to find a pen (issued lumocolours mostly) or NVG batteries (issued) or torches which have fallen apart (issued) etc.

With due deference to stiff-wing, helicopters are different. There is a huge amount of crap being carted around in helos nowadays; weapons, ammo, survival kit, water bottles, chokky bars, publications, hats, shades....infantry......, most of which isn't 'approved for flight'.

In principle you are right not to condone the carriage of non-approved items, particularly in fixed wing. If the military had its sh** in one pile and gave us the kit we needed when we needed it I'd agree with you. Sadly it doesn't, so I can't.

[ShyTorque]

Owning private kit which works tends to make you a little more aware of it and often more likely to notice when it's not where it should be.

From a practical point of view, it makes little difference if the kit is approved, issued, or not. The big issue is FOD control in the cockpit. This is a pilot's responsibilty. Pilots do take this very seriously because unlike engineers, they are always in the crash.

[NutLoose]

I have found, condoms (unused)

Curiously there was a Condom (Used) found underneath the bang seat of a certain German Sqn Jag that had transited back from Redflag I believe...
If memory serves me correctly it was bagged and reunited with it's previous owner at a dining in night.

[ShyTorque]

Doesn't surprise me completely. I once watched a single seat F-104 taxi in and shut down. Two people were inside. One was very female and was wearing a leather miniskirt. She had been sitting on the pilot's lap. Whether she had flown in or not remains unknown to me.

Lsh may recall the same event.

[ShyTorque]

Taking one of those publications into the cockpit is a potential FOD problem.

Where did you get my photo from anyway?