SDSR Revisited ?

[The B Word]

Canadian Break

A good rant, Sir

If I ever have the misfortune to meet the squandering previous Govt "Champagne Socialists" of Bliar, Broone and Mandy - I would like to punch their ferking lamps out. The buck stops with those goons as far as I'm concerned. I feel sorry for Cameron, Clegg and Georgie Porgie for getting the biggest hospital pass known in recent politics - the blatant "scorched earth" policy of Nu-Labour in the run up to the election was bl00dy disgrace!

Tough decisions, yes, that affect us all to varying degrees. But we all knew that tough times were coming when the electorate voted Nu-Labour out of their country-crippling majority.

I just wish they'd do something about the banks paying back the money they owe (wasn't it £37Bn to RBS in 2008?) before paying out bonuses (I think it was £1.5Bn within RBS last year) - seems a bit squiffy otherwise

The B Word

[casino335]

I know it's silly latebut what the heck (that's just an excuse for any bad grammar that usually springs up in my posts).

I think, but I guess it's pretty obvious, that there will be quite a few more cuts in PR 11 - kinda like the SDSR is the heavy punch that conditions you for the smaller jabs that follow on, but the smaller jabs over time become more painful than the initial punch (okay, a sloppy analogy).

Seems that there could be a maddening logic in raping the GR4 force in Lossiemouth and then closing Lossie, as the GR4 force reduction has yet to be decided. The only thing I know is I'm getting really, really sick to death of seeing the righteous face of Cameron, in what seems to be groundhog day, waffling on about we are in this together for the national interest - OK, Dave, kiss me quick before you shaft me next time (if there ever is a next). He's a rogue states dream, the prophet of terrorists, as he's doing more damage to the average Joe of this country than they could ever achieve. What rogue state or terrorist could ever wipe out a good chunk of an enemies airforce in one foul swoop? Damn, I know we are bankrupt that's why we write juicy cheques to the EU and in foreign aid to try and buy some so called business. Can't we just cash in OUR chips for RBS now if things are really that bad

Ok, Labour had the gold and turned it to dross, but I still can't feel an ounce of sympathy for Cameron, who's worth £30 odd million, and whose every move seems to be solely political and hell bent on bending over for the big co*k of big business and investors. I can understand cuts having to be made, but not in the style they are being done. Surely, NHS dentists filling away on £300k/yr, NHS consultants on £100k+ (with same amount again in overtime), police still procuring new BMW X5's and 5 series cars is perverse. Just cap max. public sector pay at £80k - if that ain't enough cream then go to private sector you greedy so and so. I really was proud of this country many, many years ago and enjoyed it, but quickly I'm finding it more of a farce, a bad joke and a bad taste. Bottom line is I don't see a brilliant light at the end of the tunnel..... Aussy visa application form, anyone? Sorry, for flying way off topic at silly speed.

[LFFC]

RAF fury at Army call to scrap jets.

BRITAIN ought to ditch its Tornado jets as a cost-cutting measure, according to the country’s most senior officer in Afghanistan.

General Sir James Bucknall’s briefing to Whitehall a fortnight ago has caused ructions among senior RAF officers, still reeling from the loss of Nimrod and Harriers, who fear that their entire force of fast jets will be reduced to just seven squadrons.

[Capt P U G Wash]

General Bucknall denies making the comment?

As the senior UK commander in Afghanistan he could not have made such a comment surely. If he did then he cannot have the confidence of those under his command, which can only mean one thing........

Is this the same man who has worked for Gen Richards in a number of past appointments (ACGS and MA) - still acting as his poodle perhaps?

If any of this report was true, then using a current military operation and his position of authority as an opportunity to undermine another Service is nothing short of treason.

[Melchett01]

General Bucknell's 'alleged' comments sound about right and simply serve to yet again demonstrate the army's parochialism and ignorance that I come across every day in my current post, and which does nothing other than double the amount of nugatory staff work required to sort out their perpetual tantrums.

If it doesn't revolve around their own tiny bit of the map in Afghanistan then it's irrelevant, and if anybody dares say no or point out the realities of the resource and manning situation then they are obviously not supporting the war effort.

DD24.5C has hit the nail squarely and very firmly on the head in suggesting that the Army might want to get its own house in order before criticizing its Sister services. As a result of their inefficiency and belief in their own self-importance and that they and they alone are the key to UK defence and security, we have had to mortgage the entire UK armed forces for the next generation to put a bde's worth of combat power on the ground in the short term. Grossly inefficient.

I'm not a vengful person, but I am almost persuaded to stay on past my next option point if only for the schadenfreude associated with watching the Army's world unravel post-2015 when it is scrabbling round for an meaningful role other than exercises and being a paper deterrent.

[Capt P U G Wash]

I do not think that there remains any doubt that the Forces are now significantly out of balance. The Army have used Afghanistan as their justification for avoiding the hit, but that argument has now run its course. You do not need an Army of 95,000 to deliver circa 3,000 combat troops. With the political desire to withdraw quickly it is air that will allow transition to take place not UK boots on the ground. It is Afghan boots that need to take their place now, with ISAF air support as the angel on their backs.
However, asking for cuts from another service is exactly what we should not be doing now – we will be no better than Bucknell otherwise. It would be a disgrace if a senior commander in an operational theatre uses his position to play inter-Service politics back at home. I wonder how Petraeus would feel about having a deputy who does not have his whole mind on the job?

[alfred_the_great]

this anger from the RAF about other Services "briefing against them" is hilarious. You'll forgive me as I laugh at the irony.....

[Capt P U G Wash]

Alfred,
I think you will find we are very used to be being briefed against (despite the protestations of others); it has been a National sport since our formation.

That was not the point I made. The issue here is that this comment is attributed to the senior UK Commander in an operational theatre. This is not whingeing from the wings by retired admirals, generals or marshals; it is far more sinister than that.

[BEagle]

A senior RAF officer said last night: “The Army is deflecting its own inefficiencies by placing the spotlight on another service. The whole situation has become a knife fight in a phone box, with each service trying to gouge chunks out of the other while protecting itself.

Why do people pay any attention to dim-witted, pig $hit thick, sandaholic pongo Generals? They'll probably have bugger all to do, apart from ponce about on horseback in London, once their current North West Frontier military adventure ends - so any long term view from their alleged General Staff (or whatever the latest descriptor is) should be firmly ignored.

The army which actually does the fighting on the ground needs all the support it can get. Internecine wrangling between purple star officers is pointless, divisive and ultimately destructive.

[LFFC]

I guess the RAF should have expected it!

Navy fury at 'underhand' Army tactics in defence review.

[Capt P U G Wash]

This no ordinary Pongo, he is the deputy ISAF Commander
British troops will hunt Taliban's winter hideouts, says senior officer | UK news | The Guardian

Mind you, I wonder if he realises what gives him these things he quotes: "We have remarkable target-precision that is causing significant attrition to the insurgents'
"Very often we have lacked the reach and the legs and the resources to go after them in those areas. I think we can expect a mixture of conventional and special forces operations to continue to disrupt the insurgents in those areas in the winter months."
If he raised his eyes just once from his parochial view he might start to see the wider contribution that UK provides with assets such as the Tornado. We have been deficient in combat air in theatre for a while now - try getting a senior soldier to ask for more at this stage of the UK defence debate.

For if he thinks he needs such capabilities for the Camapign then his comments can only be timed to coincide with PR11 and deflect attention from other areas of Defence.

If so, we have here a General who is prepared to put soldiers lives at risk in order to achieve "lower" aims.

[alfred_the_great]

PUGWash, you're right. He's got the balls to say it in public, instead of hiding behind "a Senior RAF Officer says"....

Face it, inter-Service briefing happens; all 3 Services do it, and it'll never stop. The Politicians don't like it, but then they do it themselves, so all in all, it's part of the great game of life.

[Capt P U G Wash]

Alfred, I agree. But it is one thing to do it in the back streets of Whitehall and Fleet Street and quite another to do it whilst engaged with the enemy!

[Stu666]

Given that one of the Red's primary purposes is recruitment, what is the point in funding them seeing as we are rapidly approaching the point of not even having an airforce? Public relations I hear you say, but can we really afford it?

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Given that one of the Red's [sic] primary purposes is recruitment, what is the point in funding them seeing as we are rapidly approaching the point of not even having an airforce [sic]? Public relations I hear you say, but can we really afford it?

Now there's an interesting one. Perhaps this deserves its own thread. Maybe we could call it "Time to bin the Reds?" or something similar...

[Compressorstall]

Oh f***ing hell. This is where jointery leads - one service feels it can criticise the other. When will people get their heads round the fact that there is a war on. The Army - efficient or not fights on the ground - the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy support them. It seems that The War has given the Army the idea that they are more important than anything else. The most important asset is the young bayonet on the ground, but without the Fires/Logs/ISR/MERT/etc he can't do his job. Combined Arms is actually an awesome concept, it's just a huge shame that we have to spend our time mirroring those w***er politicians that we feel we should continually justify our relative positions by criticising those around us. I have sometime questioned the Army tactics which have seemed wasteful and pointless, but I have equally seen RAF and Navy people behave in the same way. We are markedly different from civilian professions, I just fail to see whay we have to behave like the self-serving people out there who can't see that they are important in their own right without having to pour scorn on the contribution of others. Let's all get a grip and remember what we are good at.

[Jackonicko]

Great. So when a senior Airship is quoted as saying that an eight squadron FJ force "worries the hell out of him", all hell breaks loose and it's said that he's been "quoted out of context", and yet Bucknall comes out with this lunacy and there's nary a ripple.

[Capt P U G Wash]

What is worse is that he is using a distortion of the operational case to try and influence wider home-based decisions on Defence funding. I don't think I have ever seen anything more distasteful. Jacko is correct, where are the cries of indignation - is it the fact that it was in the Sunday Express, or is it the influence of his Protector? CDS should speak out or he is guilty by association. If not, it didn't take long for his Purple crown to slip did it?

[Finningley Boy]

The Army - efficient or not fights on the ground - the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy support them.

It is not the role of either the R.A.F. or the R.N. to support the Army other than in instances where it is called for. But I agree that the current conflict in Afghanistan has led the Army, coupled with the financial pressure on the defence budget, to try and present itself as the "only service". Its got some supporters, people who I'd have thought would ken better. Max Hastings demonstrated he can be as sweeping as any tabloid journalist when the incident involving the patrol boat crew from HMS Cornwall in the Gulf hit the headlines. If I recall he said that the Chief of the Defence Staff post should be permanently held by an Army Officer. More recently, he has suggested that the only obstacle to disbanding the R.A.F. is a lack of political will.

And he's a Historian!?

FB

[Jackonicko]

And he's a Historian!?

He's a twunt.