SDSR Revisited ?
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Civilians V Military
"My point is that the Troops will be affected and be impacted almost immediately because they have very limited protection from these sort of events, the CS on the other hand will only eventually be impacted after no doubt several rounds of "consultations" with their Union."
Would you like to repeat that claim in front of the part of the MoD where I work! 250+ civilian posts to be cut in the next two years, 25,000 in the MoD as a whole, civilian pay frozen for at least two years, Pension & redundancy benefits (negotiatedt by Mrs Thatchers Govt not Labour) slashed , T&S restricted
I have a mixed civilian and military staff and both are being adveresly affected. As the man said: "We are all in this together" (except the bankers!)
Would you like to repeat that claim in front of the part of the MoD where I work! 250+ civilian posts to be cut in the next two years, 25,000 in the MoD as a whole, civilian pay frozen for at least two years, Pension & redundancy benefits (negotiatedt by Mrs Thatchers Govt not Labour) slashed , T&S restricted
I have a mixed civilian and military staff and both are being adveresly affected. As the man said: "We are all in this together" (except the bankers!)
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Just 250 which a mere fraction/percentage of the military that are being made redundant, come and spend a few days at ISK where a whole RAF skill set is to be removed.
It just proves one thing to me, like everyone with an ounce of common sense said at the time the SDSR was done far to hastily, and now its come home to bite because it wasnt done properly, and they (ConDems) have got away with it, their new logic will be that we can get away with some more using the same arguament. The ConDem legacy will be to leave a proud nation defenceless through ineptitude and lack of experience and military leaders who came across as gutless.
But anyone who seriously thinks that once the economy perks up a bit that cancelled military contracts will be reinstated are living in a dream world. Even if the politicians admit they made a mistake (which they wont of course) they will not be prepared to spend any money unless its for one of the following:-
That bottomless pit called the NHS
Out of control Immigration
Out of control Assylum seekers
Foreign Aid to countries who are better off than us (eg India)
Continually bailing out the Eurozone
I,ll save you a Billion..dont shut Kinloss saving 500million or so, dont shut Lossie or Leuchars..another 500million, because thats aproximately what it will cost per base to shut them
Cancel the stupid Puma upgrade, an aircraft well past its sell by date and that will only last another 4 or 5 years after upgrade.
Reduce the number of senior officers, goodness knows how much that would save, because none of them had the decency to resign over the cuts.
It just proves one thing to me, like everyone with an ounce of common sense said at the time the SDSR was done far to hastily, and now its come home to bite because it wasnt done properly, and they (ConDems) have got away with it, their new logic will be that we can get away with some more using the same arguament. The ConDem legacy will be to leave a proud nation defenceless through ineptitude and lack of experience and military leaders who came across as gutless.
But anyone who seriously thinks that once the economy perks up a bit that cancelled military contracts will be reinstated are living in a dream world. Even if the politicians admit they made a mistake (which they wont of course) they will not be prepared to spend any money unless its for one of the following:-
That bottomless pit called the NHS
Out of control Immigration
Out of control Assylum seekers
Foreign Aid to countries who are better off than us (eg India)
Continually bailing out the Eurozone
I,ll save you a Billion..dont shut Kinloss saving 500million or so, dont shut Lossie or Leuchars..another 500million, because thats aproximately what it will cost per base to shut them
Cancel the stupid Puma upgrade, an aircraft well past its sell by date and that will only last another 4 or 5 years after upgrade.
Reduce the number of senior officers, goodness knows how much that would save, because none of them had the decency to resign over the cuts.
I,ll save you a Billion..dont shut Kinloss saving 500million or so, dont shut Lossie or Leuchars..another 500million, because thats aproximately what it will cost per base to shut them
FB
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Thanks for finding that Jim
I know allowances has raised it's head in other threads but to actually see it in black and white rasies some ugly questions. Does anyone know if RB of fg pay is actioned as soon as you hit a gnd tour or if you volunteer to stay away from flying?
Strikes me that given the vast reduction in cockpits it's going to be difficult for people to manage only 2 years or less away from fg. Or is fg pay going to feature in this reveiw of specialist pay this year? They can't affors what should have happened ages ago which is a different pay stream ala JRs tech trades versus others because it would lead to a big pension hit, can they??
I hope they realise that I don't have to earn much on top of my pension to hit my salary less fg pay and therefore there are going to be no benefits to staying in soon - there will be an exodus, then an FRI
I know allowances has raised it's head in other threads but to actually see it in black and white rasies some ugly questions. Does anyone know if RB of fg pay is actioned as soon as you hit a gnd tour or if you volunteer to stay away from flying?
Strikes me that given the vast reduction in cockpits it's going to be difficult for people to manage only 2 years or less away from fg. Or is fg pay going to feature in this reveiw of specialist pay this year? They can't affors what should have happened ages ago which is a different pay stream ala JRs tech trades versus others because it would lead to a big pension hit, can they??
I hope they realise that I don't have to earn much on top of my pension to hit my salary less fg pay and therefore there are going to be no benefits to staying in soon - there will be an exodus, then an FRI
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"Cancel the stupid Puma upgrade, an aircraft well past its sell by date and that will only last another 4 or 5 years after upgrade."
Bluetail - Without going into things in depth in an open forum, the Puma upgrade will provide a huge leap in capability and until 2025 for the paltry sum of £400m. To re-engine 30 Merlins is costing over twice that amount, JUST for engines!
If you have access to anybody in the know that can give you the details it may be an idea to ask them. It might just save you making random and slightly uninformed statements.
HG
Bluetail - Without going into things in depth in an open forum, the Puma upgrade will provide a huge leap in capability and until 2025 for the paltry sum of £400m. To re-engine 30 Merlins is costing over twice that amount, JUST for engines!
If you have access to anybody in the know that can give you the details it may be an idea to ask them. It might just save you making random and slightly uninformed statements.
HG
the paltry sum of £400m. To re-engine 30 Merlins is costing over twice that amount, JUST for engines!
But I don't like the way the cost of the Puma upgrade has apparently increased by 33% in barely a year...not surprised, just not happy...
Last edited by TorqueOfTheDevil; 21st Jan 2011 at 14:42. Reason: Wild inaccuracy, sorry!
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wasting money
Well i got told a story today from someone who is in the know.
When the RAF retired the jag fleet they sold the majority of the fleet for
total £17.000 i was told 15 airframes to a company in suffolk ( i think you know who ) then when the RAF need more airframes for cosford the RAF bought 2 jags for £17.000 each so yet again the RAF wasting money.
Then another story same company bought a load of brand new shar canopys still in there transit boxes. Then the indian airforce enquired to the RAF to see if they had any they wanted to sell so the RAF put them onto this company, Well it turns out this company sold them to the IAF for £100.000 each .
This is what i dont understand why dont the RAF ask other nations if they need or want any airframes or spares instead of scrapping them or selling them for next to nothing as companys like the one in suffolk are rubbing there hands together thinking thank you RAF anything else you wanna sell .
To sum up my uncle had the right idea come back maggie thatcher all is forgiven ok she mucked up abit but she would never let the armed forces get in state it is in today.
Right il get off my soap box now .
When the RAF retired the jag fleet they sold the majority of the fleet for
total £17.000 i was told 15 airframes to a company in suffolk ( i think you know who ) then when the RAF need more airframes for cosford the RAF bought 2 jags for £17.000 each so yet again the RAF wasting money.
Then another story same company bought a load of brand new shar canopys still in there transit boxes. Then the indian airforce enquired to the RAF to see if they had any they wanted to sell so the RAF put them onto this company, Well it turns out this company sold them to the IAF for £100.000 each .
This is what i dont understand why dont the RAF ask other nations if they need or want any airframes or spares instead of scrapping them or selling them for next to nothing as companys like the one in suffolk are rubbing there hands together thinking thank you RAF anything else you wanna sell .
To sum up my uncle had the right idea come back maggie thatcher all is forgiven ok she mucked up abit but she would never let the armed forces get in state it is in today.
Right il get off my soap box now .
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Although the Reds total cost to the MOD balance sheet is very small indeed - they may be disbanded, but an awful lot else will have to go as well to achieve the new saving target.
To my mind, the main problem caused by the Reds continuing to exist is not that they cost a lot of money which could be put to better use elsewhere
To my mind, the main problem caused by the Reds continuing to exist is not that they cost a lot of money which could be put to better use elsewhere
What a bloody sorry state of affairs Blabour drove us to.
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There is also deep dismay at the MoD that David Cameron’s government has allowed this situation to arise.
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Whilst they may serve the elected government of the day, you do understand that MoD, other departments, the civil service and military personnel are non-political, and not part of ANY government, don't you?
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Whilst there was much debate over whether SDSR was a true strategic review or just cuts, there can now be no doubt that SDSR MkII is simply a Defence cut. Just call it DC MkI (with all sorts of connotations) and the collective faces of MoD are saved, right?
As stated by other posters, yet again MoD is being stiffed by the BCs as a result of their "can do" attitude.
Nary a whisper of complaint when whole fleets and capabilities were chopped. e.g. MPA. Just an unseemly rush toward gongdom.
Other Departments are fighting their corner to the last, so the BCs turn again toward the supine MoD Stars, approaching from the side the goings tilt them toward. "Cheques" and balance takes on a whole new meaning.
On the other hand, it won't have escaped the BCs that it remains MoD policy and practice that knowingly wasting money is highly rewarded, while those who refuse can wave good bye. Until MoD are seen to rescind that particularly fraudulent rule, they will be a prime target.
As for politics & MoD, I'd say Bernard Gray is definitely a political appointment as CDM (?). His brief will be to implement his 2009 report. Or at least those parts that don't upset the BCs. He'll find resistance from within to the remainder. For example, he suggested it would be a good idea to both quantify and cost requirements before letting contracts. (On the basis that one must quantify before one can cost and if you don't, how does anyone know what the equipment budget should be?). MoD ditched that notion in 1987. How many are left who can produce the regs of the day and effect seamless regression? (I've still got mine - they are the bible for time, cost and performance). And he'll probably discover the SDSR cuts mean he has to write another report against an ever-shifting baseline.
What a bloody mess.
Nary a whisper of complaint when whole fleets and capabilities were chopped. e.g. MPA. Just an unseemly rush toward gongdom.
Other Departments are fighting their corner to the last, so the BCs turn again toward the supine MoD Stars, approaching from the side the goings tilt them toward. "Cheques" and balance takes on a whole new meaning.
On the other hand, it won't have escaped the BCs that it remains MoD policy and practice that knowingly wasting money is highly rewarded, while those who refuse can wave good bye. Until MoD are seen to rescind that particularly fraudulent rule, they will be a prime target.
As for politics & MoD, I'd say Bernard Gray is definitely a political appointment as CDM (?). His brief will be to implement his 2009 report. Or at least those parts that don't upset the BCs. He'll find resistance from within to the remainder. For example, he suggested it would be a good idea to both quantify and cost requirements before letting contracts. (On the basis that one must quantify before one can cost and if you don't, how does anyone know what the equipment budget should be?). MoD ditched that notion in 1987. How many are left who can produce the regs of the day and effect seamless regression? (I've still got mine - they are the bible for time, cost and performance). And he'll probably discover the SDSR cuts mean he has to write another report against an ever-shifting baseline.
What a bloody mess.
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"Just 250 which a mere fraction/percentage of the military that are being made redundant, come and spend a few days at ISK where a whole RAF skill set is to be removed."
You forgot to mention that the civil servants at ISK and elsewhere where there is a base closure will also lose their jobs as well. The 25,000 civil servants to go is a larger percentage than the service staff who are being made redundant.
As I said in my last post we are all being shafted.
You forgot to mention that the civil servants at ISK and elsewhere where there is a base closure will also lose their jobs as well. The 25,000 civil servants to go is a larger percentage than the service staff who are being made redundant.
As I said in my last post we are all being shafted.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
This is what i dont understand why dont the RAF ask other nations if they need or want any airframes or spares instead of scrapping them or selling them for next to nothing as companys like the one in suffolk are rubbing there hands together thinking thank you RAF anything else you wanna sell .
Also in never-never-land, a stores building whose racking is 6 feet and whose ceiling is 12 feet in, by definition, 50% empty. That extra space has to be paid for ..............
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 22nd Jan 2011 at 09:53.
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Quote:
The Red's problem is the aircraft. I believe they have sufficient airframes at the moment but probably no money for 128s.
Won't you ever tune in PN ? The thread is not about keeping the Red's going, it's about SDSR II.
FFS
The Red's problem is the aircraft. I believe they have sufficient airframes at the moment but probably no money for 128s.
Won't you ever tune in PN ? The thread is not about keeping the Red's going, it's about SDSR II.
FFS
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Not to step on anyone's fear-filled rantings, but there is this...
MoD denies plans to reopen SDSR - Defence Management
Of course, this could be the standard "denial before confirmation" that officials like to give.
MoD denies plans to reopen SDSR - Defence Management
MoD denies plans to reopen SDSR
Thursday, January 20, 2011
The Ministry of Defence has denied that it is considering reopening the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) in order to help counter an estimated £1bn shortfall in its annual budget.
Thursday, January 20, 2011
The Ministry of Defence has denied that it is considering reopening the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) in order to help counter an estimated £1bn shortfall in its annual budget.
Of course, this could be the standard "denial before confirmation" that officials like to give.