Pay and allowances
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take a £12,000 pay cut
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That's what happens when people think of it as their basic pay. They live beyond what may be their means. When people talk of financial hardships due to pay and allowance changes, they are probably rather talking about Cpl Scroggins with 2 kids rather than Flt Lt Biggles living at the edge of his FP.
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SDSR Pg 31
SDSR Pg 31 says:
In the real world pay and allowances rise and fall with the economic outlook, its about time they did in the military. I can see flying pay falling in the near future and raising if, if there is an increase in airline recruitment. As for Flt Lt Bloggs losing flying pay because he's posted to a ground tour, well if Flt Lt Bloggs doesn't like it the door is open and likely to remain so for some time. Oh and it saves on a redundancy payment. If PVRs start to rise, just change the policy again and introduce a FRI. Its called supply and demand. Flying pay and FRIs should be linked to external recruitment activity in the aviation sector.
- [*]
In the real world pay and allowances rise and fall with the economic outlook, its about time they did in the military. I can see flying pay falling in the near future and raising if, if there is an increase in airline recruitment. As for Flt Lt Bloggs losing flying pay because he's posted to a ground tour, well if Flt Lt Bloggs doesn't like it the door is open and likely to remain so for some time. Oh and it saves on a redundancy payment. If PVRs start to rise, just change the policy again and introduce a FRI. Its called supply and demand. Flying pay and FRIs should be linked to external recruitment activity in the aviation sector.
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Perhaps we could just scrub flying pay and consider all aircrew as professional and have a separate, fully pensionable pay scale for pilots, no allowance at all.
I know that times are hard and there is little cash about but this could be funded by going further than simply creating an aircrew pay scale. It could be funded by scaling all officer trades in comparison with civilian life.
The precedent already exists with the Legal and Medical branches
Admin - secretaries. Good healthy saving there, especially in the sticks where most stations are.
Catering - MacDonalds shift manager, more savings. (Assuming the Nav Mafia hasn't wrapped this one up)
Supply - Matalan shop assistant, yep more savings
ATC - LHR vs Dundee. Some savings, some well paid, depending on posting.
And so the list could go on. After all, is there a need to pay all these other branches an 'officers salary' in this time of financial constraint and the need to dispose of all other elements of military tradition and stuff?
Clearly there is the 'we won't recruit the right calibre of individual' arguement; but did we ever?
And of course it's a tough out there. Well it's time to pay the piper and support aircrew properly because that's what all these other branches are there for. After all fast cars and expensive lifestyles are a sacrosanct perk of aircrew and if the Reds and Airshows and all the other good stuff go, how will aircrew attract doris' and create the next generation of greatness.
I leave you with this final point, Treasury and MOD financial policy should not be based on financial decisions personnel made 10-15 years ago based on assumptions about pay being a constant incremental beast, it's a new financial world, and frankly some are lucky to have a job.
Just a thought. Ho Ho Ho
I know that times are hard and there is little cash about but this could be funded by going further than simply creating an aircrew pay scale. It could be funded by scaling all officer trades in comparison with civilian life.
The precedent already exists with the Legal and Medical branches
Admin - secretaries. Good healthy saving there, especially in the sticks where most stations are.
Catering - MacDonalds shift manager, more savings. (Assuming the Nav Mafia hasn't wrapped this one up)
Supply - Matalan shop assistant, yep more savings
ATC - LHR vs Dundee. Some savings, some well paid, depending on posting.
And so the list could go on. After all, is there a need to pay all these other branches an 'officers salary' in this time of financial constraint and the need to dispose of all other elements of military tradition and stuff?
Clearly there is the 'we won't recruit the right calibre of individual' arguement; but did we ever?
And of course it's a tough out there. Well it's time to pay the piper and support aircrew properly because that's what all these other branches are there for. After all fast cars and expensive lifestyles are a sacrosanct perk of aircrew and if the Reds and Airshows and all the other good stuff go, how will aircrew attract doris' and create the next generation of greatness.
I leave you with this final point, Treasury and MOD financial policy should not be based on financial decisions personnel made 10-15 years ago based on assumptions about pay being a constant incremental beast, it's a new financial world, and frankly some are lucky to have a job.
Just a thought. Ho Ho Ho
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Admin Blunty Said: In the real world pay and allowances rise and fall with the economic outlook, its about time they did in the military. I can see flying pay falling in the near future and raising if, if there is an increase in airline recruitment. As for Flt Lt Bloggs losing flying pay because he's posted to a ground tour, well if Flt Lt Bloggs doesn't like it the door is open and likely to remain so for some time. Oh and it saves on a redundancy payment. If PVRs start to rise, just change the policy again and introduce a FRI. Its called supply and demand. Flying pay and FRIs should be linked to external recruitment activity in the aviation sector.
Supply and demand might work well for some but is not exactly the cornerstone of an organisation that should and does talk about loyalty. If any employer attempts to use any economic downturn as a remuneration/manning regulator it can only expect employees to expect such behaviour and plan for it accordingly in the good times. It is a little bit like (and I know that it is a stretch so stay with me for a bit) the compassionate repatriation system: it is not only important that an individual is given the treatment that they deserve when things go wrong but that everybody else feels that they would be treated equally well in a difficult situation. If we attempt to use things such as the allowances package as a manning regulator many would be actively looking for a job during any economic good times because they would know what was coming in the next downturn. By all means take flying pay away or reduce it if there is a model that says that you can recruit and retain a viable pool without it; however, using it as a manning lever would be a big step down a sad road.
Supply and demand might work well for some but is not exactly the cornerstone of an organisation that should and does talk about loyalty. If any employer attempts to use any economic downturn as a remuneration/manning regulator it can only expect employees to expect such behaviour and plan for it accordingly in the good times. It is a little bit like (and I know that it is a stretch so stay with me for a bit) the compassionate repatriation system: it is not only important that an individual is given the treatment that they deserve when things go wrong but that everybody else feels that they would be treated equally well in a difficult situation. If we attempt to use things such as the allowances package as a manning regulator many would be actively looking for a job during any economic good times because they would know what was coming in the next downturn. By all means take flying pay away or reduce it if there is a model that says that you can recruit and retain a viable pool without it; however, using it as a manning lever would be a big step down a sad road.
Perhaps the Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork should consider some redundancies and re-focus in its own specialist area, starting with the members list. 
It's a retention and recruitment initiative, and it works. If they get rid of flying pay (a 25% pay cut for me) my PVR would be straight in and I know a few others in the same boat. And before every bitter and twisted person starts bleating about how we have too many pilots blah blah blah, just consider that some areas of the RAF aren't exactly overborne with operationally experienced pilots with 1000+ hours on type.
We need to be careful we don't get rid of the wrong people from the wrong areas.
We need to be careful we don't get rid of the wrong people from the wrong areas.
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Can someone answer me this: If flying pay is an allowance, whhy do I pay 40% tax on it?
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Jocky, just to help...
Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.
Now, go back to standing still, lightbulb aloft, and wait for the world to revolve around you. Good boy.
Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.
Now, go back to standing still, lightbulb aloft, and wait for the world to revolve around you. Good boy.
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I wonder how many aircrew would look to move back into quarters in the short term if they lose their flying pay and have to sell up/rent out their properties. The latter would certainly be the most likley option for me in the short term given that my mortgage is predicated to some extent on my flying pay (that's assuming we still have quarters!!).
We need to be careful we don't get rid of the wrong people from the wrong areas.
Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.
Grabbers, you make me larf!
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Code:
Well it's time to pay the piper and support aircrew properly because that's what all these other branches are there for. After all fast cars and expensive lifestyles are a sacrosanct perk of aircrew and if the Reds and Airshows and all the other good stuff go, how will aircrew attract doris' and create the next generation of greatness.
Wow,
With such insight and knowledge of what it takes to acquire and support a complex aeronautical weapon system, you must be at least a 2 Star!
Code:
and frankly some are lucky to have a job
AT and SH fleets excluded, I wouldn't bank on many more future generations of manned fighters; of course I'm sure an argument could be made for keeping FP while "flying" a UAV from a Sea Container just outside Bristol, but I doubt it would be very convincing.
CWD
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Watching you post over the years confirms that you never really have gotten over the rejection
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Mr Hinecap is correct, whether or not the allowance cuts are palatable or not is besides the point, they are coming, and whilst we are speculating just now as to what they might be you can guarantee one thing as the SDSR has already shown nothing is safe! so sticking your head in the sand and saying they can't doesn't really work because yes they can.
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The beancounters must be laughing it up listening to you lot arguing about which of our hardworking military personnel should take a pay cut.
I'm sorry to be harsh, but divided you will fall - some people posting on this thread really need to get a life!
I'm sorry to be harsh, but divided you will fall - some people posting on this thread really need to get a life!
Thread Starter
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I think the previous posters are all correct... Our pay and allowances will be cut - we will see a reduction in our money.... thankfully we still have a job (at the moment)