Mrs Bloggs 'At Home' Etiquette/Protocols
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toulouse area, France
Age: 93
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rank Retention ...
My first boss after I became a civilian was a gentleman of Air Rank in his previous life. Very early in the interview before taking me on, he said: "We're both out of the Service now, John, my name's Tom."
'Nuff said.
If both MM and the Bloggses are civilians, former ranks are irrelevant, surely and normal manners apply - or is village life in UK really based on former glories?
'Nuff said.
If both MM and the Bloggses are civilians, former ranks are irrelevant, surely and normal manners apply - or is village life in UK really based on former glories?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Jig, this may prove to be the case but equally it may not.
The Army has this quaint habit of upping rank on retirement and using it too. As mentioned above, RAF ranks do not lend themselves to social use. I don't use my rank but others do. It always feels odd.
The Army has this quaint habit of upping rank on retirement and using it too. As mentioned above, RAF ranks do not lend themselves to social use. I don't use my rank but others do. It always feels odd.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
If both MM and the Bloggses are civilians, former ranks are irrelevant, surely and normal manners apply -
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Yorkshire
Age: 82
Posts: 641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The Army has this quaint habit of upping rank on retirement"...
Oh yes? Can't remember any example of this happening during my many years in said Army. Certainly didn't to me.
Oh yes? Can't remember any example of this happening during my many years in said Army. Certainly didn't to me.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: west lancs uk
Age: 76
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Generals present and him from the ranks! Perhaps he's been invited to serve the drinks. 
Doesn't only happen that way.
Once upon a time, a small island in the med, saturday morning VVIP visit involved touring extensive fuel installations, trip out with MCU to the dolphin, briefing / presentation etc. All senior officers, et moi as "the man on the ground"
Endex in 1* ofice, he suggests drinks. All present speak their preference, me at end of row - 1* looks to me with eyebrow raised, I, feeling somewhat smug to be in such exalted company, respond " G & T sir".
1* - " I wasn't asking you what you would like, I was indicating the drinks cabinet and hinting that it is your place to pour'em" !!
(Said 1* was in fact an excellent guy, and did it with a hint of humour)
Doesn't only happen that way.
Once upon a time, a small island in the med, saturday morning VVIP visit involved touring extensive fuel installations, trip out with MCU to the dolphin, briefing / presentation etc. All senior officers, et moi as "the man on the ground"
Endex in 1* ofice, he suggests drinks. All present speak their preference, me at end of row - 1* looks to me with eyebrow raised, I, feeling somewhat smug to be in such exalted company, respond " G & T sir".
1* - " I wasn't asking you what you would like, I was indicating the drinks cabinet and hinting that it is your place to pour'em" !!
(Said 1* was in fact an excellent guy, and did it with a hint of humour)
Knowing One's Place
In about 1992, I went to an official Cocktail Party in Durbar Court, the very posh atrium area at the Foreign Office.
On arrival, it all seemed a bit quiet and very little actvity for so close to kick-off. Enter Stage left the organiser with hair afire. Apparently the 'events manager' or whatever had been dismissed summarily and his final act of revenge was to cancel the additional staff due to serve at the event, leaving only the resident few to cope.
This was a call to arms and six or eight of us swung into action!! Drinks trays first, then the nibbles, then - oh great joy - getting into the room where all the back-up booze was waiting. End result, one of the best cocktail parties I ever been at. My 2*, who always called me 'Chris' - to which I answered of course - actually got my name right: but then his glass was almost empty at the time and I had the full bottle (of drink that is!).
O-D
On arrival, it all seemed a bit quiet and very little actvity for so close to kick-off. Enter Stage left the organiser with hair afire. Apparently the 'events manager' or whatever had been dismissed summarily and his final act of revenge was to cancel the additional staff due to serve at the event, leaving only the resident few to cope.
This was a call to arms and six or eight of us swung into action!! Drinks trays first, then the nibbles, then - oh great joy - getting into the room where all the back-up booze was waiting. End result, one of the best cocktail parties I ever been at. My 2*, who always called me 'Chris' - to which I answered of course - actually got my name right: but then his glass was almost empty at the time and I had the full bottle (of drink that is!).
O-D
Gentleman Aviator
In about 1992, I went to an official Cocktail Party in Durbar Court, the very posh atrium area at the Foreign Office.
But that was in Noo Laybah times, so perhaps it was Elfan Safety. And neither Robin Cook nor his "secretary" looked any better in the flesh.
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lt Colonels and 'full' Colonels are both addressed as "Colonel"
USe of Rank Socially
It is clear that some social-climbers get a vicarious thrill of being around military personnel. Some 12 years ago I attended a family wedding (on Mrs WP's side) and there was a 'Lady' there who had acquired the title through marriage. Her husband had recently died. But she was one of the most aggressive social climbers I think I have encountered (obtaning the title was clearly an enabling objective) and she delighted it introducing 'Sqn Ldr WP' to her acquaintances - as it seemed to reinforce her own social standing.
I wasn't in uniform and it wasn't a Service Wedding (where use of rank etc is entirley appropriate as Service weddings are great reunions) but she learned of my rank through social chit-chat. As the afternoon progressed (a garden-party styled reception) she got distinctly squiffy on champers and proceeded to chase me around the event, calling out in a Hyacinth Bucket style 'Squadron Leader, Coooeee!' across the garden. I was mortified and Mrs WP was distinctly unimpressed - with me!
Somehow, 12 years on now that my uniform has shrunk and my hair has thinned, I'm not sure that some drunken guttersnipe would chase me around a party. Oh dear. Life does deliver cruel blows!
I wasn't in uniform and it wasn't a Service Wedding (where use of rank etc is entirley appropriate as Service weddings are great reunions) but she learned of my rank through social chit-chat. As the afternoon progressed (a garden-party styled reception) she got distinctly squiffy on champers and proceeded to chase me around the event, calling out in a Hyacinth Bucket style 'Squadron Leader, Coooeee!' across the garden. I was mortified and Mrs WP was distinctly unimpressed - with me!
Somehow, 12 years on now that my uniform has shrunk and my hair has thinned, I'm not sure that some drunken guttersnipe would chase me around a party. Oh dear. Life does deliver cruel blows!
But Commanders are NEVER referred to as Captain. It simply wouldn't do .......
...... Quite apart from the fact that the rank of Lieutenant Commander was only instituted in March 1914 although, since 1875, Lieutenants with eight years' seniority had worn two and a half stripes to distinguish them from their more junior colleagues. It probably won't come up Chez Bloggs, and many Lieutenant Commanders don't like it, but rather as Blacksheep points out, a Lieutenant Commander is therefore effectively a senior Lieutenant, whereas a Lieutenant Colonel is effectively a junior Colonel.
Some people feel being a Commander is actually much more fun than being a Captain since, in civilian life, most people have no idea whether a "Captain" is a Captain RN, a Captain in the Salvation Army, or the skipper of the Gosport ferry, whereas they seem to know, perhaps thanks to Ian Fleming, that a "Commander" is a senior naval rank, or, thanks to the plethora of police programmes on TV, an even more senior police rank equivalent to an Assistant Chief Constable!
B-Day -6 and counting ......
Jack
...... Quite apart from the fact that the rank of Lieutenant Commander was only instituted in March 1914 although, since 1875, Lieutenants with eight years' seniority had worn two and a half stripes to distinguish them from their more junior colleagues. It probably won't come up Chez Bloggs, and many Lieutenant Commanders don't like it, but rather as Blacksheep points out, a Lieutenant Commander is therefore effectively a senior Lieutenant, whereas a Lieutenant Colonel is effectively a junior Colonel.
Some people feel being a Commander is actually much more fun than being a Captain since, in civilian life, most people have no idea whether a "Captain" is a Captain RN, a Captain in the Salvation Army, or the skipper of the Gosport ferry, whereas they seem to know, perhaps thanks to Ian Fleming, that a "Commander" is a senior naval rank, or, thanks to the plethora of police programmes on TV, an even more senior police rank equivalent to an Assistant Chief Constable!
B-Day -6 and counting ......
Jack
Last edited by Union Jack; 29th Nov 2010 at 10:32.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Jack indeed. At my grad my old man caused kerfuffle when I put his name forward - Captain PN, MM
Having elicited that he was a master mariner, merchant marine, they were still at a loss as to his precedent. In the end he was hosted by a wg cdr. At the time, as master of a tramper, he reckoned that a 2.5 was more appropriate.
Today, given pay scales and responsibility, I would rate the master of a Cruise ship at gp capt or even 1*.
Mind you, on one cruise ship the Greek master had the rank of a Vice-Admiral, later promoted to Rear-Admiral (but then he was Greek)
Having elicited that he was a master mariner, merchant marine, they were still at a loss as to his precedent. In the end he was hosted by a wg cdr. At the time, as master of a tramper, he reckoned that a 2.5 was more appropriate.
Today, given pay scales and responsibility, I would rate the master of a Cruise ship at gp capt or even 1*.
Mind you, on one cruise ship the Greek master had the rank of a Vice-Admiral, later promoted to Rear-Admiral (but then he was Greek)
Before Their Time!
Teeteringhead,
You're a few years too previous! 1992 or thereabouts was too soon for the bearded Robin and fragrant G&^l.
Were you there that night?
O-D
You're a few years too previous! 1992 or thereabouts was too soon for the bearded Robin and fragrant G&^l.
Were you there that night?
O-D
Four men meet on a train at the start of a long journey. After a few minutes, one says; “We’ll be on this train for some hours so let’s introduce ourselves. I’m Percy Pendleton-Symthe, Brigadier retired, happily married, three sons- all barristers”. The second pipes up: “I’m Nigel Pumphry-Palmer, Brigadier retired, happily married, three sons – all doctors”. The third says; “Algernon Wetherspoon-Waterdale, Brigadier retired, happily married, three sons, all diplomats”.
A short silence ensues and the three look towards the fourth. After a moment he says:
“Bert Smiff – two ‘f’s, Lance corporal busted, ain’t never married, three sons: all Brigadiers”.
A short silence ensues and the three look towards the fourth. After a moment he says:
“Bert Smiff – two ‘f’s, Lance corporal busted, ain’t never married, three sons: all Brigadiers”.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: The Deep South (Sussex)
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toulouse area, France
Age: 93
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Upwomanship
A Berlin friend with the usual acerbic local humour once told me that the longest word in the German language translated as:
"Danube-Steamship-Travel-Company-Captain" ... which his wife duly had engraved on his imposing gravestone. When she followed him in her turn, her headstone showed for all to see and ponder what then became German's longest word ...
"Danube-Steamship-Travel-Company-Captain's-Widow".
Status clearly counted in 19th Century Vienna, even into the hereafter.
"Danube-Steamship-Travel-Company-Captain" ... which his wife duly had engraved on his imposing gravestone. When she followed him in her turn, her headstone showed for all to see and ponder what then became German's longest word ...
"Danube-Steamship-Travel-Company-Captain's-Widow".
Status clearly counted in 19th Century Vienna, even into the hereafter.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Well, Lincolnshire
Age: 69
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've told the story before of one of my (rather long in the tooth) SAC's from 20 years ago, the infamous Colin Andrews.
Colin was an exceptionally natty dresser in civvies; blazer, flannels, striped tie etc, the full rig. Colin was being sent on detachment to FI. By coincidence, part of the Resident Infantry Company roulement were scheduled to depart on the Tri* the same evening.
The departing RIC, were to be seen off by their CO, a Lt Colonel Andrews.
Colin had the habit of labelling himself, and his baggage, with his nickname of 'Col'.
This habit caused a few red faces amongst the Movements staff, at the secret Oxonian airbase, as they removed him from the VIP Lounge to which Colin had been escorted to on arrival.
Colin certainly enjoyed the hour it took to discover the error.
Colin was an exceptionally natty dresser in civvies; blazer, flannels, striped tie etc, the full rig. Colin was being sent on detachment to FI. By coincidence, part of the Resident Infantry Company roulement were scheduled to depart on the Tri* the same evening.
The departing RIC, were to be seen off by their CO, a Lt Colonel Andrews.
Colin had the habit of labelling himself, and his baggage, with his nickname of 'Col'.
This habit caused a few red faces amongst the Movements staff, at the secret Oxonian airbase, as they removed him from the VIP Lounge to which Colin had been escorted to on arrival.
Colin certainly enjoyed the hour it took to discover the error.
Jig Peter, that would be Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänsfrau?
Scrabble must be fun in German!
The 'Col.' thing was also quite fun in the USA - our Vulcan AEO was a dapper little Scots chap named Colin S*g**y. His name patch just said 'Col. S*g**y' and it often caused reactions of respectful servility from various Spams.
Scrabble must be fun in German!
The 'Col.' thing was also quite fun in the USA - our Vulcan AEO was a dapper little Scots chap named Colin S*g**y. His name patch just said 'Col. S*g**y' and it often caused reactions of respectful servility from various Spams.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toulouse area, France
Age: 93
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@BEagle
Perhaps I didn't make it clear that he pre-deceased her, hence the "witwe".
I think that while both were alive, she'd have been entitled "Frau Donau ...etc ". I hope that MM's village has loosened up a bit, or does "Memsahib Rules OK" still apply ?
I think that while both were alive, she'd have been entitled "Frau Donau ...etc ". I hope that MM's village has loosened up a bit, or does "Memsahib Rules OK" still apply ?
Last edited by Jig Peter; 29th Nov 2010 at 14:01. Reason: add 2nd Para