Decision to axe Harrier is "bonkers".
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A psychotic hatred of the RAF
Sharkey is bleating about the hotel bill for the Libyan det crews. Apparently it will be a lot more expensive than a floating cocktail party or something..... See article in today's Sunday times. I'm not able to post a link, but apparently the RAF are responsible for plague, world poverty, the Japanese earthquake, AIDS, alien invasion and ginger hair......
Yawn.
Yawn.
What will happen to the 70 odd Harriers - they'll be recycled of course:
At least this one fires missiles unlike the GR5 in 1990! I wonder if the Pilot comes with Eagle Eyes, Gripping Hands and Flaps-on-their-Boots?
The HM Forces toymakers have really backed some winners with their aircraft - a model Harrier and a F-35B!
Could have been worse though, they could have modelled a MRA4 and WSOps to go with it!
iRaven
At least this one fires missiles unlike the GR5 in 1990! I wonder if the Pilot comes with Eagle Eyes, Gripping Hands and Flaps-on-their-Boots?
The HM Forces toymakers have really backed some winners with their aircraft - a model Harrier and a F-35B!
Could have been worse though, they could have modelled a MRA4 and WSOps to go with it!
iRaven
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Why dig-in when you can check-in? 
Whatever the motivation for the article, the practice (if true) is a massive PR bodyblow for the Light Blue as far as the general population are concerned.
Whatever the motivation for the article, the practice (if true) is a massive PR bodyblow for the Light Blue as far as the general population are concerned.
Sharkey has been spouting hoop for years and I'm amazed anyone listens to him anymore. He started with SHar FRS1 is more capable than F15 (in his book) - claiming they waxed them "7 to 1" in DACT in the early 80s. Now he claims that running the old tub into the Mediterranean is cheaper than a hotel booking...
Methinks all that rum, bum and baccy has had a serious effect on the old boy.
iRaven
Methinks all that rum, bum and baccy has had a serious effect on the old boy.
iRaven
Mini Bar? Of course not, don't be stupid, the DAO will have paid the Hotel extra to empty the Mini Bar before the crews turned up. You know the score, those pesky aircrew types can be trusted with a multi-million pound aircraft with a full weapon load - but trusted with a Mini Bar? No chance!
LJ
PS Agree about the observation of the rather large chip on Sharkey's shoulder - he doth protest too much, methinks.
LJ
PS Agree about the observation of the rather large chip on Sharkey's shoulder - he doth protest too much, methinks.
One has to admit, however, Sharkey has been handed some hefty ammunition in this case. Although, what he's probably overlooked is that all three services do indeed take what they can when its on offer, like just about anyone I can think of in fact. Two of my nephews were serving with the Irish Guards on exercise in some part of Africa a few years back. The Battalion were put up in Hotels, of not inelegant grandeur, so I'm given to understand. The R.A.F. got the blame for the fact they had to be put up in hotels as well, the transport wasn't available to ferry them back the Brize Norton, because the crews hadn't had there allocated period of rest. Aint war Hell!
FB
FB
Many years ago I heard a tale, which I believe to be true rather than an urban myth, about the RN. Perhaps someone can confirm/deny this...?
The way I heard it the crew of an RN "battleship" were paid LOA at the rate of the last overseas port (country) they had visited, until they got to their next one. This obviously didn't count with regard to UK. However, say a grey funnel liner was leaving UK to go to the USA. On leaving UK, a quick flag waving stop in France before crossing the Atlantic, and you get LOA at French rates until you reach the USA.
I believe this lead to the situation in the Falklands war where you could have 2 ships side by side doing the same job. One steamed straight from Portsmouth in a hurry without stopping anywhere, so the crew was getting nothing. The other was recalled from a port visit in the Med, so for the whole of the Falklands war deployment the crew was being paid LOA at the rate for the last country they visited (say Italy).......
True, or an urban myth? A past practice, or still going on today? Overall cost of this perk? Being paid LOA while at sea being fed 3 meals a day, using ships laundry, etc..?
The way I heard it the crew of an RN "battleship" were paid LOA at the rate of the last overseas port (country) they had visited, until they got to their next one. This obviously didn't count with regard to UK. However, say a grey funnel liner was leaving UK to go to the USA. On leaving UK, a quick flag waving stop in France before crossing the Atlantic, and you get LOA at French rates until you reach the USA.
I believe this lead to the situation in the Falklands war where you could have 2 ships side by side doing the same job. One steamed straight from Portsmouth in a hurry without stopping anywhere, so the crew was getting nothing. The other was recalled from a port visit in the Med, so for the whole of the Falklands war deployment the crew was being paid LOA at the rate for the last country they visited (say Italy).......
True, or an urban myth? A past practice, or still going on today? Overall cost of this perk? Being paid LOA while at sea being fed 3 meals a day, using ships laundry, etc..?
That may've been the case, but since 1999 (at least, and my first foreign run), you get paid LOA for the days you are alongside.
LSA is paid for every day at sea, or on duty watch, just like anyone from the RAF who embarks on a HM Ship and goes to sea with us. LSA rates are available in the JSP somewhere.
LSA is paid for every day at sea, or on duty watch, just like anyone from the RAF who embarks on a HM Ship and goes to sea with us. LSA rates are available in the JSP somewhere.
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I don't see why it is embarrassing for the RAF. It just exposes the fact that the cutbacks over the years mean that we nolonger have the manpower to run large tented sites with attendant cooks and bottlewashers etc. Just like selling off married quarters and then housing our personnel on excess rent. A false economy.
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!00% correct high spirits! I wonder what %age of the daily costs of this ill advised intervention in Libya is attributable to hotels! At least they aren't fiddling their expenses and/or doing anything illegal!
Having been on op dets from Gioia before, I can confirm that on base accomodation is as rare as hen's teeth. Also for the chaps at Trapani, the same applies. Don't believe those at Akrotiri are in hotels, which I would not expect (unless you're one of the "precious ones" from 216 who seem to swing hotels wherever they go - jealous, moi?).
So all in all, a bit of a non- story really. Far more expensive to ship down cooks, bottle washers, stackers and a shed load of tents when there is a cheap *** Hotel nearby (which we used to be suspiscious of laundering money for the Cosa Nostra when I frequented).
iRaven
So all in all, a bit of a non- story really. Far more expensive to ship down cooks, bottle washers, stackers and a shed load of tents when there is a cheap *** Hotel nearby (which we used to be suspiscious of laundering money for the Cosa Nostra when I frequented).
iRaven
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Why not just take all that's needed with us on our own portable self contained aerodrome? No complaints then about the living quarters or food or funds being diverted to the Mafia. No worry about running out of bombs or missiles either as a proven logistics chain exists.
It's called an aircraft carrier
It's called an aircraft carrier
On the subject of the use of Litening pod on Typhoons first air to ground combat mission. It would appear that the Typhoon was using the data link (Link-16) in order to see the images from the Tornado's Litening pod?
Typhoon pilot describes first air to ground strike
Typhoon pilot describes first air to ground strike | British Forces News
The Royal Air Force pilot who carried out the first operational Typhoon aircraft strike on a ground target has been describing the mission.
The first strike was made against a Libyan regime main battle tank during a mission on Tuesday, 12 April.
The pilot said: “I left Gioia Del Colle in a mixed pair with a Tornado GR4.
“We’d been tasked to Misratah in the West of Libya, which is pretty much a city under siege, with significant numbers of attacks against the civilian population from pro-regime forces. We were looking along one of the main supply routes in Misratah when we came across a compound with around 10 – 15 main battle tanks in.
“We reported our findings to the command and control assets we work with and shortly thereafter, were cleared to engage.
“At that point, we generated coordinates for the targets and dropped weapons. Each time we assessed the likely weapon effect and whether there would be any collateral damage implications.
“It was a precision attack from a significant altitude.
“To be honest, I was a little bit nervous but you just revert to the training you’ve done before. I’ve dropped a significant number of weapons from the Typhoon in training. It felt no different from that, only this time I was even more relieved to see the bomb go exactly where it should have done, in the Litening III image displayed in my cockpit.”
“We have proven that the jet can carry weapons a long distance, drop them accurately, land and get pumped full of fuel, reloaded with weapons and go and do it again, day in day out. That makes this capability enduring, and while it may seem like a milestone to some, it’s just a hurdle that had to be overcome at some point. It has been done, and we will drop more over the life of the aircraft. I think people are just pleased we’ve got the first one out of the way.”
TJ
Typhoon pilot describes first air to ground strike
Typhoon pilot describes first air to ground strike | British Forces News
The Royal Air Force pilot who carried out the first operational Typhoon aircraft strike on a ground target has been describing the mission.
The first strike was made against a Libyan regime main battle tank during a mission on Tuesday, 12 April.
The pilot said: “I left Gioia Del Colle in a mixed pair with a Tornado GR4.
“We’d been tasked to Misratah in the West of Libya, which is pretty much a city under siege, with significant numbers of attacks against the civilian population from pro-regime forces. We were looking along one of the main supply routes in Misratah when we came across a compound with around 10 – 15 main battle tanks in.
“We reported our findings to the command and control assets we work with and shortly thereafter, were cleared to engage.
“At that point, we generated coordinates for the targets and dropped weapons. Each time we assessed the likely weapon effect and whether there would be any collateral damage implications.
“It was a precision attack from a significant altitude.
“To be honest, I was a little bit nervous but you just revert to the training you’ve done before. I’ve dropped a significant number of weapons from the Typhoon in training. It felt no different from that, only this time I was even more relieved to see the bomb go exactly where it should have done, in the Litening III image displayed in my cockpit.”
“We have proven that the jet can carry weapons a long distance, drop them accurately, land and get pumped full of fuel, reloaded with weapons and go and do it again, day in day out. That makes this capability enduring, and while it may seem like a milestone to some, it’s just a hurdle that had to be overcome at some point. It has been done, and we will drop more over the life of the aircraft. I think people are just pleased we’ve got the first one out of the way.”
TJ
Last edited by TEEEJ; 17th Apr 2011 at 20:21.
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Draken,
Whilst I am sure that harrier and it's very capable RN and RAF pilots would have made a contribution to the Op, Sharkey opines that they could single handedly win the war whilst maintaining Ops elsewhere. His costing of typhoon and tornado land based options focus on purely the cost of the carrier. He even makes a direct comparison between running costs of CVS versus RAF Marham.
Of course he conveniently ignores the two land bases supporting Harrier. Oh and the oiler and supply ships. Oh and the organic defence surface vessels and their sustainment. Oh and all the other assets such as AWACS. Cheap it may be, but it would not have had the same effect as produced by tornado and typhoon. The logistics of getting fuel and armament resupply would have proved too much by now as we have insufficient RFA assets. His figures are misleading and his far fetched ideas of what a carrier and harrier could achieve are laughable.
Whilst I am sure that harrier and it's very capable RN and RAF pilots would have made a contribution to the Op, Sharkey opines that they could single handedly win the war whilst maintaining Ops elsewhere. His costing of typhoon and tornado land based options focus on purely the cost of the carrier. He even makes a direct comparison between running costs of CVS versus RAF Marham.
Of course he conveniently ignores the two land bases supporting Harrier. Oh and the oiler and supply ships. Oh and the organic defence surface vessels and their sustainment. Oh and all the other assets such as AWACS. Cheap it may be, but it would not have had the same effect as produced by tornado and typhoon. The logistics of getting fuel and armament resupply would have proved too much by now as we have insufficient RFA assets. His figures are misleading and his far fetched ideas of what a carrier and harrier could achieve are laughable.
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High Spirits
I have no desire to get re-engage in this now pointless debate. Suffice to say that it's for the reasons that I mentioned that we are building the carrier(s) so best you get used to this fact.
I have no desire to get re-engage in this now pointless debate. Suffice to say that it's for the reasons that I mentioned that we are building the carrier(s) so best you get used to this fact.
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I never disagreed with buying them..... They are a good insurance policy and good for power projection. But they could not sustain an op such as we are on now with one CVF with one in refit. Not with Harrier GR anyway. I am entitled to question the dubious facts of a one eyed individual who contributes to a naval based think tank and hates the idea that the RAF could possibly have the nerve to operate from land rather than sea.
Fingers crossed we get something appropriate to fly off the new carriers. With only 40 F35s to share out between the R.A.F. and the F.A.A. I can imagine matters are going to be a tad stretched, even compared to the present circumstances.
FB
FB