RN Sub run aground
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It's going to wear that shingle bank out if there's another 5 subs to come . . . not exactly environmentally friendly that.
That's probably a mussel bed for some illegal immigrant fisherman who'll sue for millions.
Sad end to a career, but entirely predictable, not exactly the advertising the Andrew needed - especially at this time.
That's probably a mussel bed for some illegal immigrant fisherman who'll sue for millions.
Sad end to a career, but entirely predictable, not exactly the advertising the Andrew needed - especially at this time.
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A final decision has still to be made about whether he will face a court martial.
An apocryphal tale has it that a Commander RN, who had been 'passed over' for promotion, was the captain of a frigate, and dinged the bow of said ship whilst coming alongside. The subsequent court martial sentenced him to some loss of seniority, which put him back in the promotion bracket and he was subsequently elevated to Captain RN.
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The Captain of the sub has learned a valuable lesson.
If he was good enough before the incident, then surely with his valuable lesson learned, he is now even more suitable. What an absolute waste of experience and expertise.
The people that make these decisions are idiots of the highest order.
Service mentality has very little to do with common sense.
No doubt it is the same kind of high ranking ar$e licking officer that won't say NO to politicians, yet still like to think they're in a position of power.
If he was good enough before the incident, then surely with his valuable lesson learned, he is now even more suitable. What an absolute waste of experience and expertise.
The people that make these decisions are idiots of the highest order.
Service mentality has very little to do with common sense.
No doubt it is the same kind of high ranking ar$e licking officer that won't say NO to politicians, yet still like to think they're in a position of power.
Another apocryphal tale...
...that a certain RN chap who (alledgedly) "lost" some sensitive papers on a London tow path which fell into the hands of the press; nonetheless went on to do quite well in the Admirality.
The Ancient Mariner
PS Neppy the way I heard the tale was that a submarine beached itself at the bottom of FOSM's garden. The outcome was as you reported.
The Ancient Mariner
PS Neppy the way I heard the tale was that a submarine beached itself at the bottom of FOSM's garden. The outcome was as you reported.
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If he was good enough before the incident, then surely with his valuable lesson learned, he is now even more suitable. What an absolute waste of experience and expertise.
That said, it's a dog eat dog world just now.......
An apocryphal tale has it that a Commander RN, who had been 'passed over' for promotion, was the captain of a frigate, and dinged the bow of said ship whilst coming alongside. The subsequent court martial sentenced him to some loss of seniority, which put him back in the promotion bracket and he was subsequently elevated to Captain RN.
I have certainly heard a similar story, albeit without mention of any specific incident, but I would have to be somewhat sceptical about Rossian's:
the way I heard the tale was that a submarine beached itself at the bottom of FOSM's garden because, assuming that we are talking about Dolphin House at Gosport, the house in question is located 0.7 NM from navigable water and 0.3 NM from salt water of any depth!
However, Rossian's dit could be an oblique reference to the perhaps equally apocryphal tale of a certain Nigel Lawson (yes, that Nigel Lawson) running the aptly named FPB GAY CHARGER up the Wardroom lawn at HMS HORNET during his National Service.
Incidentally, before the sadly almost inevitable scatological humour about the GAY Class rears its ugly head, the word had at that time none of the modern connotations it now does.
Back to the real issue, Commander Coles has done a first class job bringing ASTUTE from building through trials up to acceptance and, obviously without the benefit of knowing what came to light in the BOI, I really had hoped that "the powers that be" would let him get on with the job in hand. For several reasons, all good, I certainly would not like to be whoever gets a pierhead jump to relieve him.
Jack
I have certainly heard a similar story, albeit without mention of any specific incident, but I would have to be somewhat sceptical about Rossian's:
the way I heard the tale was that a submarine beached itself at the bottom of FOSM's garden because, assuming that we are talking about Dolphin House at Gosport, the house in question is located 0.7 NM from navigable water and 0.3 NM from salt water of any depth!
However, Rossian's dit could be an oblique reference to the perhaps equally apocryphal tale of a certain Nigel Lawson (yes, that Nigel Lawson) running the aptly named FPB GAY CHARGER up the Wardroom lawn at HMS HORNET during his National Service.
Incidentally, before the sadly almost inevitable scatological humour about the GAY Class rears its ugly head, the word had at that time none of the modern connotations it now does.
Back to the real issue, Commander Coles has done a first class job bringing ASTUTE from building through trials up to acceptance and, obviously without the benefit of knowing what came to light in the BOI, I really had hoped that "the powers that be" would let him get on with the job in hand. For several reasons, all good, I certainly would not like to be whoever gets a pierhead jump to relieve him.
Jack
If It's Any Consolation.............
............. to Cdr Coles, I understand that the captain of HMS Nottingham, which hit a rock off an island called Australia, has since been promoted from the rank of Cdr to Capt.
When that happened, I watched his interview on TV and I thought; 'here is a true man of honour and integrity'. He was straightforward about what happened, he didn't try to blame anybody and he took 'the buck stops here' on his own shoulders. We now know that it was his command and leadership which actually saved the vessel from sinking after the incident.
I raise my glass to you Sir, well done R****** F*********, I'd serve with you anyday.
O-D
When that happened, I watched his interview on TV and I thought; 'here is a true man of honour and integrity'. He was straightforward about what happened, he didn't try to blame anybody and he took 'the buck stops here' on his own shoulders. We now know that it was his command and leadership which actually saved the vessel from sinking after the incident.
I raise my glass to you Sir, well done R****** F*********, I'd serve with you anyday.
O-D
Pious,
You make a very good point. If the aviation world behaved the same way, there would be no senior pilots. It is interesting that this incident happened during a very simple manoeuvre, much like once a pilot has completed the tactical part of the sortie, he relaxes and then balls up the landing in Blue/Blue conditions. The difference in the aviation world is the no blame culture, which is actively promoted and encourages others to learn from mistakes. Humans are fallible and in a submarine, crew resource management is a significant challenge.
Human factors. Low arousal, post period of high attention, familiarity, teamwork. Local knowledge, complexity of equipment.
You make a very good point. If the aviation world behaved the same way, there would be no senior pilots. It is interesting that this incident happened during a very simple manoeuvre, much like once a pilot has completed the tactical part of the sortie, he relaxes and then balls up the landing in Blue/Blue conditions. The difference in the aviation world is the no blame culture, which is actively promoted and encourages others to learn from mistakes. Humans are fallible and in a submarine, crew resource management is a significant challenge.
Human factors. Low arousal, post period of high attention, familiarity, teamwork. Local knowledge, complexity of equipment.
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The story I heard was that there were senior officers aboard conducting an overview assessment.
At end of play they 'requested' Astute go in close to drop them off, promptly running aground; so Cdr.Coles would not even have taken Astute there if he hadn't felt obliged...
Also, I sailed a while with an RN Navigator - he reckoned if a ship he was in even thought about touching the seabed, it was him who'd be facing a CM for sure, with the C/O optional; this seems reasonable to me, but I've not heard anything re. the nav. on Astute.
At end of play they 'requested' Astute go in close to drop them off, promptly running aground; so Cdr.Coles would not even have taken Astute there if he hadn't felt obliged...
Also, I sailed a while with an RN Navigator - he reckoned if a ship he was in even thought about touching the seabed, it was him who'd be facing a CM for sure, with the C/O optional; this seems reasonable to me, but I've not heard anything re. the nav. on Astute.
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Widger,
You get the point
It just seems a pathetically childish action to take with someone who is at the top of their game.
The fella would be a better sub commander because of the accident, not worse, he becomes even more potent. Everyone learns from their mistakes, I don't see why people in top 1% would be any different.
There won't be a decent reason for his 're assignment', it's purely service 'mentality' dictated by people with zero common sense & no balls.
You get the point
It just seems a pathetically childish action to take with someone who is at the top of their game.
The fella would be a better sub commander because of the accident, not worse, he becomes even more potent. Everyone learns from their mistakes, I don't see why people in top 1% would be any different.
There won't be a decent reason for his 're assignment', it's purely service 'mentality' dictated by people with zero common sense & no balls.
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At end of play they 'requested' Astute go in close to drop them off, promptly running aground; so Cdr.Coles would not even have taken Astute there if he hadn't felt obliged...
IF TRUE
A commander of a nuclear sub was co-erced into something which was unnecessary and ultimately unsafe?
Poor judgment I think.
I seem to remember that, with respect to the pole, greasy, naval orficers for the shinning up of, if you wanted to be an admiral, you had to have been:
a. divorced, and
b. court-martialled.
I wonder if that's still the case...
airsound.
a. divorced, and
b. court-martialled.
I wonder if that's still the case...
airsound.
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Pious pilot, I think it is your posts that are pathetically childish. It would seem from your remarks that you have no experience of the military whatsoever. If you had you'd understand that warfighting is not the same warm, fluffy politically correct cushy little nest that you live in.
Levels and expectations of responsibility in the military are vastly different from those in civvy street, and isn't that right and proper considering the sort of kit they are in charge of?
If he's not seriously culpable he's probably still got a decent career ahead of him. A court martial always used to be said to be necessary for serious advancement.
Do you suppose he, the Admiralty or his future crew would want to be thinking every time he got into shallow water "I wonder if the bugger's going to run us onto the putty again?" It wouldn't work, would it?
ps. Ever heard of the expression, "Pour encourager les autres?"
Levels and expectations of responsibility in the military are vastly different from those in civvy street, and isn't that right and proper considering the sort of kit they are in charge of?
If he's not seriously culpable he's probably still got a decent career ahead of him. A court martial always used to be said to be necessary for serious advancement.
Do you suppose he, the Admiralty or his future crew would want to be thinking every time he got into shallow water "I wonder if the bugger's going to run us onto the putty again?" It wouldn't work, would it?
ps. Ever heard of the expression, "Pour encourager les autres?"